tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post116005179634603131..comments2024-03-17T03:18:56.070-04:00Comments on Dan Shanoff: Thursday A.M. Quickie:Who Screwed Up More?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160141939637586402006-10-06T09:38:00.000-04:002006-10-06T09:38:00.000-04:00thirdstringjd: I know I'm responding way late on t...thirdstringjd: I know I'm responding way late on this, but I must respond to a couple of your points.<BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong: I'm a huge NASCAR fan. I have been since 1991. My beef is with the fact that you claim it to be one of the "Big 4" sports, or at least a bigger niche sport. My argument is that it has a ways to go.<BR/><BR/>"NASCAR has a basic cable channel all to themselves (SPEED)"<BR/>-No they don't. SPEED carries all sorts of racing and has never been solely devoted to NASCAR. Plus, SPEED is not available to many extended basic cable subscribers.<BR/><BR/>There are two races per week (Busch Series/Nextel Cup) and both sell out the stadium (100,000+ spectators)<BR/>-Again, no they don't. Since ticket prices jacked up with the spread of ths sport's popularity, races at Atlanta, Charlotte, California, and Darlington have not been sellouts. Ticket prices are way too high, and I know that's the reason, but it hurts the sport. Moreover, I have never seen a sold out Busch Series race.<BR/><BR/>I will say this to those who still say, "I have never seen a NASCAR fan outside of the South": Good for you, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm in Illinois, and I buck the trend by being a NASCAR fan. NASCAR fans are growing, and they're not going away. Deal with it.<BR/><BR/>But the sport can still make many improvements, no doubt.MPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05833230465240793728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160107310546560412006-10-06T00:01:00.000-04:002006-10-06T00:01:00.000-04:00@ericif you are going to play into stereotypes, th...@eric<BR/><BR/>if you are going to play into stereotypes, then you won't be offended if someone said "all lawyers are assholes...it is a proven fact". Of course I would only say that if I thought for a second that anyone's e-credentials meant anything to anyone.<BR/><BR/>check your math on the TV ratings. if the GB v. DET game gets a 5 share in Detroit, that doesn't mean 5 million detroit households are watching. There aren't 5 million detroit households. one can argue if there are households in detroit, but that is another discussion. It means 5% of households in Detroit, watching TV, are watching that game. you can't add up the #'s like you did.<BR/><BR/>a NATIONAL share of 5.5 means ~ that many people (in millions) are watching, out of the 99 million households with TVs in the USA.<BR/><BR/>http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/<BR/><BR/>click sports. wow. 2.4 share for WWE, 1.5 for MLB. By your logic WWE viewers are smarter than MLB, since they were able to turn on their TVs more betterer.Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160081644113093512006-10-05T16:54:00.000-04:002006-10-05T16:54:00.000-04:00You know Eric, I hope you keep reading, because yo...You know Eric, I hope you keep reading, because you could use the education.<BR/><BR/>1. Ratings can't be added across regions! As a percentage, they're averaged.<BR/>2. Here's why education doesn't equal intelligence:<BR/>Minorities have less education, on average. This is due to lack of money, not a genetic lack of intelligence.<BR/>3. This casual relationship of economics affecting education also explains the rural/suburban/urban education gap. EVERYONE (see how I'm turning your debating technique against you? eh?) knows that EDUCATED people in rural areas leave to make more money. Not because of "idea exchanges". That's why you get an education, you know? Money? Not "idea exchanges" from diversity.<BR/><BR/>So there's no difference in rural/suburban/urban intelligence for the same reason there's no difference in white/black intelligence. Clear enough?<BR/><BR/>And btw, educated people are, on average, found in suburbs now, not cities. You know, since the 50's?<BR/><BR/>I admitted that Nascar probably appeals to a lower educated audience, didn't I? Maybe you need to read more carefully. <BR/><BR/>You did insult people by describing us as simpletons. But then, I'm not a trained professional communicator like you, I shouldn't challenge your craft.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160073743877655102006-10-05T14:42:00.000-04:002006-10-05T14:42:00.000-04:00Oh, and let me slow THIS down for you:1. There isn...Oh, and let me slow THIS down for you:<BR/>1. There isn't an "infinite" amount of data on ANYTHING.<BR/>2. Education does not equal intelligence. You're talking about intelligence, and we don't have good data on intelligence in the United States, because we don't require people to take IQ tests for the census. So, not only do you not have "infinite" data, you don't have a leg to stand on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160073045880544992006-10-05T14:30:00.000-04:002006-10-05T14:30:00.000-04:00Eric, you're not being very smart in three ways.1....Eric, you're not being very smart in three ways.<BR/><BR/>1. You have no numbers that show that American cities attract smarter people in the internet age.<BR/>2. You have no numbers that show Nascar appeals to dumber people.<BR/>3. Most of the football games take place at the same time.<BR/><BR/>As for your point about intelligence and Nascar, just say "Nascar viewers are less educated on average", then cite a number and be done with it. I don't know if it's true, but your outrageous generalizations demonstrate how easy it is to get a juris doctorate. And how arrogant lawyers are.<BR/><BR/>Your education is irrelevant, because it wasn't part of the argument. My intelligence was called into question as a Nascar fan and a rural bumpkin. I called you biased (and you are) and NOW I think you're simple minded with numbers, since you make the astounding causal claim that smart people go to cities, yet have no research to back this up.<BR/><BR/>How about this? Redmond, Washington, Mountain View, California, Cambridge, Massachusetts and Cary, North Carolina all have some of the smartest people in the world, and none of them are city centers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160072358829940282006-10-05T14:19:00.000-04:002006-10-05T14:19:00.000-04:00you're right. In Connecticut, CFB is a complete a...you're right. In Connecticut, CFB is a complete after-thought, dominated by division 2 and 3 teams, unless the Attorney General is suing the ACC for stealing their Big East buddies. Meanwhile, CBB is ridiculously huge. But they're all afterthoughts to Sox-Yanks. And since ESPN is right there in the middle....of course it seems big to them.<BR/><BR/>Look at Fox Sports. They're not northeast-based, and they cover college football a lot more than baseball. College baseball (ping-ping-ping!) is a big draw for them....not even close on ESPN.Brian in Oxfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16053368055698118199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160070931131416952006-10-05T13:55:00.000-04:002006-10-05T13:55:00.000-04:00I meant to add: it's probably similar for many oth...I meant to add: it's probably similar for many other small-market areas. Just depends on the local team.Shumshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12427294708952512804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160070801532269352006-10-05T13:53:00.000-04:002006-10-05T13:53:00.000-04:00The sports I follow are entirely determined by the...The sports I follow are entirely determined by the place I live. Being a Utah native, the NBA is what I follow most, because the Jazz are our only major team. And I'm a young white male, in a very white state. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, we have no local NFL or MLB team, so there is MUCH less attention paid (and news coverage given) to those sports, as a general rule. The NFL is such a juggernaut that it can't really be ignored, but the state has no geographical loyalty to any team at all (certainly not the Broncos).<BR/><BR/>College football rules Utah from August to December, and the NBA from January to June. The summer goes largely unnoticed as far as sports are concerned. Although we do take a healthy interest in golf.<BR/><BR/>For my area, the rankings would go:<BR/>1. CFB<BR/>2. NBA<BR/>3. NFL<BR/>4. GolfShumshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12427294708952512804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160070501290070602006-10-05T13:48:00.000-04:002006-10-05T13:48:00.000-04:00As for the slowest baserunner in the MLB discussio...As for the <B>slowest baserunner in the MLB</B> discussion, here are a few players that can be considered among the "slowest":<BR/><BR/>Paul Konerko (runs like he has a piano on his back)<BR/>Frank Thomas (on a bum ankle)<BR/>Jason Giambi (slow)<BR/>David Ortiz (slower)<BR/><BR/>Who does everyone think would be the slowest ever?<BR/><BR/>I'd say big Cecil Fielder, but he made himself look fast when he chugged around the bases. As Homer Simpson once said "look at that flubber fly!"Megahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14407561625097289402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160066642254191462006-10-05T12:44:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:44:00.000-04:00Basketball is a niche sport while baseball is in t...Basketball is a niche sport while baseball is in the big 3? Maybe you should check tv ratings and attendence. That might be the dumbest comment you've ever made. You're right, NBA is a niche, that's why the entire world is trying to play their game.BLUEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01547964589052140083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064863581823352006-10-05T12:14:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:14:00.000-04:00Wow, lots going on today!It's sucks that Hunter's ...Wow, lots going on today!<BR/><BR/>It's sucks that Hunter's misplay cost them the game, but that's a play he's gonna make more often than not so I don't fault him for diving. Though I do agree he should've jumped back up instead of laying there wallowing.<BR/><BR/>On the Kent, Drew thing that was just stupidity, but you gotta give some love to Green for making that throw to Paulie. Screw you Mel Gibson.<BR/><BR/>On the TO thing, from what I saw on SC, it seemed like in the press conference McNabb took more of a dig at TO than TO at the Eagles. And he know they hated him before he signed, he's aware of the parking lot funeral. I think the Philly fans just need to let go of the hate, you'll feel so much better.<BR/><BR/>As for the Big 3 or 4, NFL, MLB, NCAA FB, I totally agree, I'm not ready to slide hoops down just yet, and I certainly wouldn't put it over golf. Not that I dislike golf, esp. if Adam Scott is playing (yum!) but I'll take a fast break over chip shots anyday. <BR/><BR/>Solomonrex wrote:<BR/>Basketball is a niche sport. Few adults play it, few watch it.<BR/><BR/>I have to disagree with Dan: NFL, College Football, Nascar and golf are the real big 4. Everyone knows the major players, the big moves, etc. in these sports. The golf records and Tiger chasing them is starting to supplant the home run record of baseball (for good reason). Everyone plays golf.<BR/><BR/>Sorry dude, I think putting on a pair of kicks, grabbing a ball and heading over to your local park or gym at any given time of the day is way more accessible than investing in a pair of clubs, finding a range with the not so cheap fees and having the time to do it during daylight hours.<BR/><BR/>The decline of the NBA is due to the crappy players with the big contracts that water down the league. The fact that if you don't have cable, it's really hard to follow the sport, so you can't expect fans to have much of an attachment when playoffs roll around on the major networks, unlike the NFL that is on free tv multiple times a week. And I also blame Isaiah Thomas & Scott Layden, because if the team in the center of the media universe was still a powerhouse there would be alot more buzz.<BR/><BR/>I grew up in the south, so I never got into hockey. But guess what, I never got in to Nascar either. I struggle to name even 5 drivers, much less identify them. I went to one race at the TX Motor Speedway and it was brutal. Hot, loud, and cars driving in circles for hours. The appeal of this sport is lost on me. But to each their own.<BR/><BR/>Also I think the ads on jerseys would suck. There's enough corporate sponsorship as it is with all the stadiums named after airlines, banks or whatever. Then the Bowls can't just be Bowls anymore, but prefixed with cell providers or pantry staples. You gotta draw the line somewhere. <BR/><BR/>Oh and Danmega, SC did show the other 2 non-postseason plays where 2 were tagged out at the plate.Badass Of The Yearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16006421706977226384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064730354410202006-10-05T12:12:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:12:00.000-04:00As we've seen in the last 2 elections that elected...As we've seen in the last 2 elections that elected Bush, there are kinda a lot of people in the south and midwest. So saying just the south and midwest watch nascar doesnt mean it's not a major sport, that's a huge area. Guys, not everyone lives on the coasts, there are a TON of people in rural america.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07353671003212539401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064405430463222006-10-05T12:06:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:06:00.000-04:00Steve, I love the NBA, and I'm looking forward to ...Steve, I love the NBA, and I'm looking forward to it (except that I cheer for the ... Knicks). But the reality is that it's getting less popular, not more popular. LeBron is the big new star, and as a high-schooler he had a Hummer, and I find that hard to swallow. <BR/><BR/>All the off-court stuff becomes worse every year. I love how athletic it is. I love the personalities and seeing every emotion, every move. But the officiating is suspicious, and the actual play is inferior to the international product, and vastly inferior to previous decades. <BR/><BR/>LeBron went from the next Magic to the next Jordan, and that's a problem. Wade became the Italian soccer team. Carmelo (go SU!) appeared in "Stop Snitching". The things that make these guys popular in the city don't sell anywhere else. And these are the guys I like, like I really like AI. But he has niche appeal, like country music and Mexican soccer, they just don't have broad appeal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064346965361572006-10-05T12:05:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:05:00.000-04:00jen,I didn't say softball wasn't FUN! :) just ga...jen,<BR/><BR/>I didn't say softball wasn't FUN! :) just gave reasons why it is more popular than flag football.<BR/><BR/>the drinking sports (softball, volleyball, darts, xbox) are loads of fun to play :)Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064258745653072006-10-05T12:04:00.001-04:002006-10-05T12:04:00.001-04:00Who said that in order for a sport to be a "Big" o...Who said that in order for a sport to be a "Big" one that you had to be able to play it? If that was the case then bowling, poker, and golf would be "Big" sports.jhawkjjmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18297634924511036895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160064243782792192006-10-05T12:04:00.000-04:002006-10-05T12:04:00.000-04:00@ericyeah you're right, it takes no thought to dri...@eric<BR/><BR/>yeah you're right, it takes no thought to drive a 750 HP car with 40 others 3 inches off your doorhandles at 200 MPH.<BR/><BR/>and you don't have to have any engineering knowledge to design those cars. and shoot, I bet since you can change your own oil, that there's nothing to setting up a car for a race.<BR/><BR/>what state do you live in? because you have single-handledly pushed it to the top of your "simple minded" ratings.Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160063716239818452006-10-05T11:55:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:55:00.000-04:00eric, you're looney. TV ratings are the only way ...eric, you're looney. TV ratings are the only way to measure this.<BR/><BR/>NFL only plays a 16 game season. So of course it's ratings look out of whack! But they still make billions, and so does Nascar. In terms of money and viewership, they are up there with college football.<BR/><BR/>The fact that many corporations are aligned with Nascar because of sponsorships makes it a big deal for people who don't watch the games. That's less true of the other sports.<BR/><BR/>As for the idea that rural people are simple-minded? Do you have a Master's degree? Do you even know what statistics are? Am I supposed to believe living in NY, Boston or LA would raise my IQ? Or is this just the stupid liberal notion that Liberals=smart people, and urban=liberal, rural= conservative=dumb. So of course Nascar=dumb people squared.<BR/><BR/>Is bump-drafting, racer/track history, teamwork and pit strategy SOOO much easier to figure out than dribble down court, pass to Shaq, dunk? After all if urban=smart, then basketball is only for geniuses? And football, your stated sport for complex minds, couldn't possibly be popular in Colorado, Nebraska and West Virginia, right?<BR/><BR/>Maybe you should re-think generalizations that aren't supported by facts and are inherently biased.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160063544728378472006-10-05T11:52:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:52:00.000-04:00Chris Maher~ You listed every single reason the gu...Chris Maher~ You listed every single reason the guys I know STILL play softball!<BR/><BR/>My brother-in-law played flag football for those reasons as well. He kept some Jim Beam in his duffle if I'm not mistaken. Too bad he moved to AZ and now plays golf more.Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071405721004631626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160063168549739562006-10-05T11:46:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:46:00.000-04:00NASCAR is popular because of the simplemindness? ...NASCAR is popular because of the simplemindness? Football is huge in Texas and Alabama, areas within your simplemindness borders. The thing that defines NASCAR is the sheer HICKESHNESS of the fan base.Brave Sir Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15219327624473687797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160062971881907012006-10-05T11:42:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:42:00.000-04:00@ericwait, NASCAR is more simple minded than baseb...@eric<BR/><BR/>wait, NASCAR is more simple minded than baseball? come on. Man-Ram isn't going to win the Nobel anytime soon.<BR/><BR/>If you want to simplify both sports...<BR/><BR/>See ball, hit ball. <BR/><BR/>Get in car, drive in circle.<BR/><BR/>seems like a push to me.<BR/><BR/>again, I can't believe I'm defending NASCAR.Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160062863441365782006-10-05T11:41:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:41:00.000-04:00Dan: thanks for organizing a great reading event l...Dan: thanks for organizing a great reading event last night. I can't wait for the next one.<BR/> <BR/>Brian in Oxford: the girl in the Jeter jersey left around 10:15 with her friend when I mistakenly told her that the game had started. After she left I checked the Blackberry again and saw that it was postponed. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure I see the point of arguing about how big different sports are. I like football, hockey, baseball, and basketball in that order. I'll watch any of them depending on how busy/bored I am. Why do we need to rank these sports at all? Unless some of us are network execs with ad time to sell, I don't think it matters much who gets more butts in the seats or more ticket revenue. Although, like "best team ever" or "best player ever" rankings, ranking the big sports leagues makes for entertaining arguments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160062719984914652006-10-05T11:38:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:38:00.000-04:00@stevedon't blame ESPN. blame Vegas. And Pick'em ...@steve<BR/><BR/>don't blame ESPN. blame Vegas. And Pick'em Pools at work. and bookies. and FFL. and Madden07/NCAA07.<BR/><BR/>though you can blame ESPN for pimping themselves out all day monday for MNF. whores.Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160062611010345212006-10-05T11:36:00.001-04:002006-10-05T11:36:00.001-04:00@garyyeah I screwed up and forgot CBB, then again ...@gary<BR/><BR/>yeah I screwed up and forgot CBB, then again I'm a Buckeye, so we really don't care about basketball around here unless we're playing michigan or it's tourney time.<BR/><BR/>Obviously during March it deserves to be in that 2nd position with the ones I named, but there is some drop off during the regular season, no?Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160061871202345102006-10-05T11:24:00.001-04:002006-10-05T11:24:00.001-04:00chris maher...in an earlier post you ranked footba...chris maher...in an earlier post you ranked football as the big one, then listed others. You didn't even rank NCAA hoops, I'll just assume it was an error of omission and that you don't actually think tennis is more popular than college hoopsGaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12578294344206366226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1160061865793481392006-10-05T11:24:00.000-04:002006-10-05T11:24:00.000-04:00@ hi fivegreat point about the impotent lineup, bu...@ hi five<BR/><BR/>great point about the impotent lineup, but I still say that you are taught to back up the CF when he's charging in like that. Hunter SHOULD have gotten up, what happens if he cuts wrong and blows out a knee? where is the backup?Maherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11087094908297676378noreply@blogger.com