tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post116472145851162434..comments2024-03-17T03:18:56.070-04:00Comments on Dan Shanoff: Tuesday 11/28 A.M. Quickie:Mike, Mac, Magic, Manny, MoreUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger78125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164926127395106762006-11-30T17:35:00.000-05:002006-11-30T17:35:00.000-05:00Dan is great, but his Falcons analysis needs some ...Dan is great, but his Falcons analysis needs some work. See me for Vick/Falcons analysis. I actually watch the games. http://leave-the-man-alone.blogspot.com/search/label/State%20of%20the%20FalconsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164748934068768382006-11-28T16:22:00.000-05:002006-11-28T16:22:00.000-05:00One more thing about HoF QBs: Kelly ran his own no...One more thing about HoF QBs: Kelly ran his own no huddle offense on one of the top scoring offenses of all time. He deserves to be in. <BR/><BR/>Having a kicker miss an FG is the only thing keeping him from having a ring. Doesn't make him bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164747503572501232006-11-28T15:58:00.000-05:002006-11-28T15:58:00.000-05:00Steve said... Hey Jen, any chance you could get yo...Steve said... <BR/>Hey Jen, any chance you could get your Browns to trade Kellen Winslow to the Giants for draft picks so that we could have the 3 biggest tools in the universe all on the same team? They would need a bigger tool shed to hold the likes of Manning, Shockey and Winslow.<BR/><BR/>HAHAHAHA--SO true!!!<BR/><BR/>Steve, I think Edwards is trying to take over Winslow's top spot as the Browns' Power Tool. We'll send him to the Giants too. Then you'd need an airplane hangar!Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071405721004631626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164747238902564992006-11-28T15:53:00.000-05:002006-11-28T15:53:00.000-05:00First I do want to commend everyone who is leaving...First I do want to commend everyone who is leaving comments on this thread for not only great information and interesting reads, but also for the amount of civility being displayed. (not a single "you're an idiot" or anything similar has been thrown around. Kudos to you all.<BR/><BR/>As far as Favre goes, I think he like most athletes today get a little more hype due to instant history. I think it is impossible to judge someone's body of work until it is complete. Therefore, the jury is still out on Favre, Brady, Manning and anyone else who is still lacing 'em up every Sunday. When all is said and done, I think Favre is a hall of famer, as I think Brady and Peyton will be as well. I personally wouldn't rank Favre in my top 3, but I'll listen to the arguement. Either way he is a great QB, and I think a majority of NFL teams would take him under center every week if given the chance, with the exception a few of the top tier teams with solid QB situations.<BR/><BR/>I think the painkiller reference is irrelevant. Painkillers are not by any means a performance enhancer, and every pro athlete uses pain killers to a certain degree. Do you think my boy Schilling would have pitched game 6 of the '04 ALCS without some serious pain meds? Does that diminish what he accomplished in that game, the guts and character it took to fight through that pain? of course not, nor should it diminish Favre's truly amazing ironman streak.<BR/><BR/>Ripken is definitely a hall of famer. his streak was also amazing, though I do have to agree with other posters that in the final years of the streak, there were times where Cal was hurting the Orioles by being out there, but overall you can't deny his accomplishments either. You can say that his yearly numbers weren't mind boggling, but you have to look at the overall body of work, and that gets him in on the first try in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Mattingly was without a doubt a great player and it sucks that his back cost him a chance at the hall, or at least put it in serious doubt. But I think that the fact that he didn't have great power numbers while playing what has become known as a power position will definitely hurt him.<BR/><BR/>And Pete Rose should be in the Hall for what he accomplished on the field, but his bust should have the disclaimer that he was banned from Baseball for gambling while he was a manager. To exclude him and his numbers from the hall is basically the 800ld gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about. Ignoring Rose's numbers doesn't make him go away. He played, he put up sick numbers, he should be in the hall because he was part of the game. That is what the Hall is meant to be for any sport, a monument to the game's history, good and bad.Aitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08465798018639732646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164744919527762252006-11-28T15:15:00.000-05:002006-11-28T15:15:00.000-05:00Relatedly, I hadn't read Eric's post which I ended...Relatedly, I hadn't read Eric's post which I ended repeating quite a bit. Sorry about that.Brave Sir Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15219327624473687797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164744808077677582006-11-28T15:13:00.000-05:002006-11-28T15:13:00.000-05:00@ Dave If you read my post, I said that I couldn'...@ Dave<BR/> If you read my post, I said that I couldn't judge the rest because I didn't see them play. I didn't dismiss them. Also, I don't put Favre in as number one. I'm just saying your list needed to be pruned down to a little more realistic list of comparable quarterbacks.<BR/><BR/>Moon was a BS hall of fame quarterback. He wracked up huge numbers in excessively pass happy schemes.<BR/><BR/>Naimath is famous because he mouthed off and backed it up. He got in the hall of fame based off Super Bowl III. Broadway Joe really was quite overrated.<BR/><BR/>Kelly also LOST 4 Super Bowls. Talk about not being able to win the big one.<BR/><BR/>Aikman had Emmitt Smith and merely had to not throw tons of picks to win those Super Bowls. Also, having Michael Irvin to throw to helps a helluvalot.<BR/><BR/>Terry Bradshaw only had 215 TD's or something like that and 211 picks. Those are not hall of fame numbers. He's in the hall of fame because he was teh face of the Steelers along with Mean Joe Greene. Yeah, he won four Super Bowls and that also probably gave him the nudge into the hall of fame, but he's not in Favre's league as far as being a quarterback.<BR/><BR/>As for Young, what you're telling me is throwing to Jerry Rice in his prime had nothing to do with his numbers being as good as they were. That's just wrong. Having to plan for Rice just ruins defenses, making it even easier to get other guys open. I'm not dismissing Young as a good quarterback, I'm just saying I think Favre's better because he has better numbers without having the best wide receiver ever to throw to.<BR/><BR/>And I said what I did about liking Favre only because I was explaining why I would take him over Elway in a toss up. I don't really think one is that much better than the other, nor did I say that they were the 1 and 2 quarterbacks ever. Elway was just the last quarterback I could judge. The rest were before my time.Brave Sir Robinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15219327624473687797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164743350024978812006-11-28T14:49:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:49:00.000-05:00- The Yankees have never won a title while Matting...- The Yankees have <B>never</B> won a title while Mattingly was in the dugout. As a player '82-'95 or as a coach '03-present. They won the year after he retired. Irony? Whatever, I think it's hilarious.<BR/><BR/>- I don't want to see Manny in another uniform, but he may have completely worn out his welcome when he took vacation time last September.<BR/><BR/>- I had VanderJ on my Fantasy team, dammit.<BR/><BR/>- Someone tried to trade me Eli for Bush, i flatly refused. Eli sucks.marcomarcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17507640418000407851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164742132513494492006-11-28T14:28:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:28:00.000-05:00The point is talking about Brett Favre and painkil...<I>The point is talking about Brett Favre and painkillers is NOT the same as everybody else if you're talking about it in the context of the streak, "iron man", etc. Which is why I don't acknowledge that as a reason why he is one of the "greats." </I><BR/><BR/>Fine, then take 60 games off his start streak, since he was addicted for up to that many games. He gave up his addiction OVER TEN YEARS AGO. That means the streak is "untainted", if that's how you want to look at it, for 160+ games. Still is the top streak among QBs...still makes him an ironman!Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14561089277086762996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741897757860572006-11-28T14:24:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:24:00.000-05:00Regarding Favre's painkillers:I don't think it is ...Regarding Favre's painkillers:<BR/><BR/>I don't think it is a coincidence that as soon as Favre admitted his addiction and sought help (summer of 1996), he immediately won the Super Bowl and then made it to the next, and strung together 3 straight NFL MVP awards. I wonder how good he could've been those first couple years had it not been for the painkillers. Maybe another Super Bowl victory, maybe another MVP or two...Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14561089277086762996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741732581574662006-11-28T14:22:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:22:00.000-05:00Using Super Bowl wins as a measuring stick for how...Using Super Bowl wins as a measuring stick for how good a quarterback plays is DUMB. It is a team game, with too much left to other factors. <BR/><BR/>Bradshaw? He has admitted himself that Favre is the best to ever play the game. Winning 4 titles on the backs of other HOF'ers doesn't mean much to me. Reggie White is the only other possible HOF'er that has played with Favre that I can think of.<BR/><BR/>Aikman was ok, but with that defense, offensive line, receivers, and of course Emmitt Smith, he didn't have to do much of anything.<BR/><BR/>Naimath? Are you kidding? He pulled one upset, and because he had the stupidity to "guarantee" it, he is in the hall of fame. He shouldn't even be mentioned in Favre's company. <BR/><BR/>All of these guys were good in their own way. I look at it like this: replace Favre with Brady (or Manning, or whoever). Brady would be playing exactly like Favre if he was on the toilet of a team that the Packers have. Same with Manning. Are they good? Undoubtably. But put them in Favre's place, and everyone would be saying how "over the hill" they are. <BR/><BR/>Favre won 3 straight MVPs too. Along with being at the top of the list in touchdowns and wins in NFL history, how can anyone say he is overrated? Is he as good as he was in 1996? No. Does he get a handjob from the media? Sure. But he still belongs on an all time top 5 list, if not top 3 or best ever.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741574164838532006-11-28T14:19:00.001-05:002006-11-28T14:19:00.001-05:00Why the random Griffey dig? His 1.026 OPS in 59 po...Why the random Griffey dig? His 1.026 OPS in 59 post-season at bats not good enough for you? <BR/><BR/>As for Plax, I will gladly take him back in Pittsburgh. In his rookie season, Big Ben developed a nice chemistry with him. Then he got hurt down the stretch and Ben struggled a bit, partly because of it.Marcus Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17020660877653524405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741524468566092006-11-28T14:18:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:18:00.000-05:00The painkiller arugment is beyond stupid.Every pla...The painkiller arugment is beyond stupid.<BR/>Every player for decades has been getting pain killers. Favre's addiction had to do with painkillers when he wasn't playing and in the offseason. It's like takling about LT's stats not being as impressive because he did coke.NAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17958843468425299776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741103527740752006-11-28T14:11:00.001-05:002006-11-28T14:11:00.001-05:00This is rather civil today, must not be many of th...This is rather civil today, must not be many of those trouble trolls around.<BR/><BR/>As for today's debates<BR/><BR/>Hall of Fame: Ripken and Gwynn defintly in but not with 100% of the vote neither them deserve it.<BR/><BR/>QB's: Favre is one of the top 20 of all time but I do think people tend to overrate him. <BR/><BR/>NBA - I know nothing about the NBA<BR/><BR/>College Basketball - Talk to me in March<BR/><BR/>Manny- either trade him and get over with or do not trade him do not stretch it out like last time, it only hurts the team..CMFosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291296862033162143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164741078044692282006-11-28T14:11:00.000-05:002006-11-28T14:11:00.000-05:00Hey Jen, any chance you could get your Browns to t...Hey Jen, any chance you could get your Browns to trade Kellen Winslow to the Giants for draft picks so that we could have the 3 biggest tools in the universe all on the same team? They would need a bigger tool shed to hold the likes of Manning, Shockey and Winslow.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07353671003212539401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164740245361454942006-11-28T13:57:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:57:00.000-05:00http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/costner.htmreg...http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/costner.htm<BR/><BR/><BR/>regarding kelly ripken and kevin costner.Sheldizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198083524704018695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164739920423000692006-11-28T13:52:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:52:00.000-05:00i'll gloss over the "meaningless streak" comment b...i'll gloss over the "meaningless streak" comment because i love me some randy foye! <BR/><BR/>and i agree with whomever above me said that the discussions today are both interesting and civil.<BR/><BR/>good work team.Sheldizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01198083524704018695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164739346697218152006-11-28T13:42:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:42:00.000-05:00On a basketball note, it's nice to see Randy Foye ...On a basketball note, it's nice to see Randy Foye finally getting some playing time. Hopefully that huge 4th quarter he had over the weekend woke his dumb ass coach up.<BR/><BR/>Mike James is no Randy Foye.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291036839803295637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164739231920342732006-11-28T13:40:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:40:00.000-05:00I was a huge Mattingly fan, but he is definitely n...I was a huge Mattingly fan, but he is definitely not a true Hall of Fame guy. His back cost him his ticket to Cooperstown....I do still think it is possible to see him get in though because the standards have dropped over the years.<BR/><BR/>As for Ripken's streak, it is meaningless. The guy should have had a day off several times during it and yes it was due to sucking. And let's not forget about the O's cancelling a game due to a "power outage" when Cal wouldn't play after finding his wife in bed with Costner. Anyway, he is a Hall of Famer with or without the streak though. He led the way for the bigger, more offensive shortstops.Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291036839803295637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164738508186478232006-11-28T13:28:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:28:00.000-05:00Did Montana play with the best...or did he make a ...Did Montana play with the best...or did he make a slew of them into great players? <BR/>And Young riding the bench is a bad argument...he was behind teh best QB of all time, Montana. Favre would have ridden the bench too.rafaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09286062038193331350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164738255856965992006-11-28T13:24:00.000-05:002006-11-28T13:24:00.000-05:00Hey, I've been calling for Favre to retire, and I ...Hey, I've been calling for Favre to retire, and I hate people who make excuses for him.<BR/><BR/>But he actually had a good game. Their defense is legitimate.<BR/><BR/>It's not an awesome performance or anything, either, but he shouldn't be called out just because he lost on Monday Night to a Super Bowl contender.<BR/><BR/>As for the all-time argument for Favre? Iron-clad. Mr. Football, as far as I'm concerned, he won a couple, he had a lot of memorable comebacks and gutsy scrambles. My generation's Elway.<BR/><BR/>btw, anyone notice that JP Losman has similar stats to Favre with very similar help (one good WR, Favre has better RB, better O-line)? Funny how history colors everything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164736635220901972006-11-28T12:57:00.000-05:002006-11-28T12:57:00.000-05:00Hey, no mention of the Warriors beating the once u...Hey, no mention of the Warriors beating the once undefeated Road Warriors, aka the Spurs, with out Boom Dizzle (B.Diddy to some) and Pietrus. However, the new fantasy stud, Biedrins, had 18 pts., 15 rebs., 4 asts., and 6 blks!<BR/><BR/>Not to mention that they blew up the Jazz by 13 this past Sat.<BR/><BR/>The Warriors are 2nd in the division and 7th in the conference. The 12-year playoff drought might be over.WuzUpGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17432324921980566815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164734299200539652006-11-28T12:18:00.000-05:002006-11-28T12:18:00.000-05:00Not to go all Bill James on you. But in most Win ...Not to go all Bill James on you. But in most Win Share, average win share/season and runs created above average per position, Cal Ripken is usually 6th for shortstops of all time in each category. Mattingly is usually in the 20s for most first baseman rankings. When you combine everything, Ripken is a slam dunk first-ballot nominee.Mikepcflhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08980600874603719777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164734278293500162006-11-28T12:17:00.000-05:002006-11-28T12:17:00.000-05:00Just to add to the Brady vs. Favre Comparision.In ...Just to add to the Brady vs. Favre Comparision.<BR/><BR/>In Brady first 5+ Season including this year he has never had more TD's then INT's, Favre had 2 Season in is first 6 with more INT's then TD'sCMFosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291296862033162143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164734054436613082006-11-28T12:14:00.000-05:002006-11-28T12:14:00.000-05:00Brady – the jury is out – let’s see 3-4 more excel...Brady – the jury is out – let’s see 3-4 more excellent years first. He’s not in Favre’s league yet, but he could be one day.<BR/><BR/>If you made the arguement the Favre has never had anyone in the skill position then what do you make of Brady. Since he has been the Patriots starter he has 1 WR with 100 Catches in a Season and 1 WR with 1000+ yards in a season but yet he still lead his team to 3 Super Bowl Championships. <BR/><BR/>Yet Brady is not in Favre's league??<BR/><BR/>Just as a comparsion a took a look at Favre's first 5 seasons as a starter versus Brady.<BR/><BR/>Completion %<BR/>Favre - 62.0%<BR/>Brady - 61.9%<BR/><BR/>Yards<BR/>Favre - 18,724<BR/>Brady - 18,035<BR/><BR/>TD's<BR/>Favre - 147<BR/>Brady - 123<BR/><BR/>INT's<BR/>Favre - 77<BR/>Brady - 66<BR/><BR/>Super Bowls<BR/>Favre - 1 <BR/>Brady - 3CMFosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05291296862033162143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-1164733974046569472006-11-28T12:12:00.000-05:002006-11-28T12:12:00.000-05:00Why in the hell would we trade Manny? I just don't...Why in the hell would we trade Manny? I just don't get it. <BR/><BR/>The only explanation I can come up with is that there's something the Red Sox doctors know that we don't, or that he really did in effect quit on the team last year, and said so to teammates. <BR/><BR/>People keep saying that his trade value might never be higher, but doesn't that mean that his "keep" value is just as high? I mean J.D. Drew is a good player, but he doesn't have anywhere near the power or consistency that Manny has. <BR/><BR/>The names I keep hearing too in trade possibilities aren't great either. At least not in the category of anything to get excited over. I sincerely doubt the Giants would give us Matt Cain, the Angels don't appear interested, and unless the Dodgers offer James Loney plus either Chad Billingsley or Jonathan Broxton, I don't see much to get excited about there either. <BR/><BR/>I just don't get it. <BR/><BR/>-Todd (Boston)ToddTheJackasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333015679479284215noreply@blogger.com