tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post1575505802700182513..comments2024-03-17T03:18:56.070-04:00Comments on Dan Shanoff: Call Belichick, Pats What They Are: CheatersUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-48834980867256076212007-09-13T23:55:00.000-04:002007-09-13T23:55:00.000-04:00One thing is certain.Sunday night football ratings...One thing is certain.<BR/><BR/>Sunday night football ratings this week will rival the Super Bowl.marcomarcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17507640418000407851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-38881553039536798252007-09-13T10:35:00.000-04:002007-09-13T10:35:00.000-04:00Stealing the signs is not the "crime" here. You ca...Stealing the signs is not the "crime" here. You can steal signals/signs through the use of the naked eye or even use binoculars. The "crime" here is video taping the signs/signals. People compare it to baseball, but you don't see some one in the dugout setting up video surveillance equipment pointed in the direction of the other teams dugout.Codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06113551531274057788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-32979169300191958932007-09-13T09:53:00.000-04:002007-09-13T09:53:00.000-04:00I'm curious to what sign the Pats were able to ste...I'm curious to what sign the Pats were able to steal. Unless the sign was "don't be able to cover Randy Moss even with three guys" then I'm sure this will have no effect on the Pats. Kraft will absorb the fine and the Pats will keep killing the Jets. They did fine the last time the NFL made them forfeit picks to the Jets, in fact, I think it has fueled the fire that started the Hammer/Nail type of rivalry that Pats/Jets have turned into. You can't blame the Jets or their fans. I would try to beat the Pats off the field as well.Stephehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17822493506624783102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-31228096698260933942007-09-12T23:44:00.001-04:002007-09-12T23:44:00.001-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Batangbakalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15448493452924100744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-53593809276558116882007-09-12T23:44:00.000-04:002007-09-12T23:44:00.000-04:00Hi.First, there are 2 types of crimes: 1) those th...Hi.<BR/><BR/>First, there are 2 types of crimes: 1) those that are bad in itself, and 2) those that are bad because they are illegal, because the rules prohibit them.<BR/><BR/>For the first type, no matter how many people do it, it's still wrong and must be punished. For the second type, there is some argument, and when people say "everyone else is doing it anyway", what they mean is "your rule is not a rule at all, because no one follows it anyway, and therefore the rule should be abolished and we should not be penalized". <BR/><BR/>Now which one does stealing signals fall under? We seem to be divided on this as well. I'm no NFL watcher, and I was surprised when I read this story because it is done at almost every level in other sports as accepted practice; softball/baseball, basketball, football set-pieces, chess. Are we not allowed to try to predict what the opponent will do anymore?Batangbakalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15448493452924100744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-82498734956267095622007-09-12T20:38:00.000-04:002007-09-12T20:38:00.000-04:00guyinthecorner:The administration of a team has pl...guyinthecorner:<BR/><BR/>The administration of a team has plausible deniability if one of its players takes PEDs. Are you going to suggest that the administration of a team doesn't know when that administration itself is cheating?Erik Tylczakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17301913715276280809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-24900112019060081362007-09-12T19:10:00.000-04:002007-09-12T19:10:00.000-04:00if a Tape confiscated unseen in the first quarter ...if a Tape confiscated unseen in the first quarter helped them win, I don't think the Jets had much of a chance anyhoo.David "SirFozzie" Yellopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860698071617675175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-54898131278005590272007-09-12T19:05:00.000-04:002007-09-12T19:05:00.000-04:00Let me add, I remember hearing about the Broncos d...Let me add, I remember hearing about the Broncos dealing and I believed then they should have been fined to hell and lost draft picks.<BR/><BR/>However, too many people on here are doing what my clients do every freaking day. Well ________ did it, and he got off with time served. Why can't I get get the same deal. Just like I'd tell them...this isn't your 1st offense, and therefore your no privy to the mininmal punishment. The Patriots have been caught before and what did they doi? Kept those cameras rolling.<BR/><BR/>Guess what cheating is cheating and while the precedent is not high for teams like the Broncos and players using PEDs; in a game where technology plays such a large part of the system it's abuse of that aforementioned system. These technological advances have not been implemented in any sport other than football. Baseball has always been very very protective of the existenxe of sign stealing to the point where cell phones, etc are not allowed in the dugouts or bullpens.<BR/><BR/>Simply put the Patriots cheated, your coach admitted to it, the league has determined it, and it might have helped you win the football game this past Sunday.<BR/><BR/>The Patriots sure as hell deserve every thing to make them an example. And I'm not talking about forfeitures or loss of Super Bowl championships. I'm talking killer fines, loss of future draft picks, and loss of their ability to put the franchise tag on a player.<BR/><BR/>The use of this technology in this manner severely undermines the legitimacy of the game. <BR/><BR/>So please save the "Broncos salary cap", "PED", and other talks and understand that the Patriots abuse of the technology that the NFL has allowed will lead them to be made an example, and they deserve every penalty., especially since it is their second time being caught. <BR/><BR/>Joe (Orlando)Trey (formerly TF)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16016679366233865869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-25121044447731345092007-09-12T18:52:00.000-04:002007-09-12T18:52:00.000-04:00@TF:"Teams win because they are better at executin...<I>@TF:<BR/><BR/>"Teams win because they are better at executing the plays (mostly because they have better players)..."<BR/><BR/>Um, doesn't that kind of prove the point that salary cap cheating is a bigger violation? Like, you skirt the cap to get better players?</I><BR/><BR/>Not really, skirting a couple salaries (I believe it was not that big of a change) is not going to guarentee any sort of on field advantage that stealing signs using an artificial device to relay.<BR/><BR/>I have no problems stealing signs using your eyes and eyes, but come one to even justify the fact that it is even CLOSE to the violation the Broncos had is silly.<BR/><BR/>I know many NE fans are trying like hell to justify this, but they purposely used artifical technology in secret to steal signs!<BR/><BR/>Joe (Orlando)Trey (formerly TF)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16016679366233865869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-67776730968559305282007-09-12T18:08:00.000-04:002007-09-12T18:08:00.000-04:00The thought of them giving up the game to the Jets...The thought of them giving up the game to the Jets because they cheated therefore it must be counted as a loss makes a whole lote of no sense.<BR/><BR/>When a guy tests positive for PEDs do the games he played in get overturned?<BR/><BR/>No. But he was cheating. And in a more active way.GuyInTheCornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10281686811471557576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-22788003820079782082007-09-12T17:22:00.000-04:002007-09-12T17:22:00.000-04:00After all of the stuff that went on last year with...After all of the stuff that went on last year with the Pats and the Dolhpins and then with the memo sent out by Goodell in the off-season, anyone have a suspicion as to why the tape was confiscated in the first quarter of the first game of the season? Piling on that that it was against the Jets and Mangini, smells like this was in the works before the game was even started.<BR/><BR/>But, Shanoff your "instant history" runs rampant again. Chill out, dude. You act like the Patriots were electrocuting dogs on the sideline. This is the most overblown story of the year. I like your blog, but then you put up a post like this is totally fuck everything up with your "Hey! My opinion matters!" attitude. This affects the Patriot Super Bowls? Get over yourself. I'm not saying this is the case, but you could be a total d-bag for this post.<BR/><BR/>Here you are talking about the CIA-level of security Belichick and the NFL holds and how its oh-so-terrible. How about you tell as to what happened with you and ESPN? Until you do, your opinion on someone withholding information is baseless.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16253189081891309608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-34358532134973033622007-09-12T17:14:00.000-04:002007-09-12T17:14:00.000-04:00@TF:"Teams win because they are better at executin...<I><B>@TF:</B><BR/><BR/>"Teams win because they are better at executing the plays <B>(mostly because they have better players)..."</B></I><BR/><BR/>Um, doesn't that kind of prove the point that salary cap cheating is a bigger violation? Like, you skirt the cap to get better players?Big Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11478232002387175988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-6189904972864205432007-09-12T16:54:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:54:00.000-04:00Your hate for the northeast tastes delicious.The c...Your hate for the northeast tastes delicious.<BR/><BR/>The crap on the message boards I'm reading is hilarious. "Make them forfeit! Ban Belichick from the hall of fame! Make Bob Kraft sell the team".. and these are all serious here.<BR/><BR/>Oh.. here's something else for you to chew on when your ranting and raving and calling for first rounders, etcetera.. This is minor shit compared to some of the other stuff that's gone on, at least it's ON THE FIELD.<BR/><BR/>Imagine a team cheats the salary cap. Not talking about a minor mistake. We're talking hiding deferred payments totalling about $29 million from the cap. And then, in a seperate issue it is proven that they cheated on the salary cap for three years running. In those three years, they win two superbowls. You'd be howling up a storm. You'd call for them to be Joe Smithed, never to have a first round draft pick again, right? It's spitting on the competitive balance of the NFL, and must be punished harshly, right?<BR/><BR/>Well, in the case of the Denver Broncos, they were fined heavily (nearly $2 million over two seperate fines).. but they only lost two third round draft picks.<BR/><BR/>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28969-2004Sep17.html<BR/><BR/>So get a sense of scale here, folks.David "SirFozzie" Yellopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860698071617675175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-76981531025452349562007-09-12T16:44:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:44:00.000-04:00Perhaps Belichick should lose a testicle. The ques...Perhaps Belichick should lose a testicle. The question is which testicle was more involved with the cheating... I'm betting the left. <BR/><BR/>Am I the only person who thinks the punishment ought to fit the crime, and that the real crime was being so stupid as to get caught doing this?ToddTheJackasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333015679479284215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-31987230833999133732007-09-12T16:25:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:25:00.000-04:00This is really serious. I think the league should ...This is really serious. I think the league should force the Krafts to sell the franchise and move it to LA. The would teach them!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08987982704601330050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-88808921625332508262007-09-12T16:22:00.001-04:002007-09-12T16:22:00.001-04:00Mark circumventing the cap v. illegally reading a ...Mark circumventing the cap v. illegally reading a team's defensive calls...<BR/><BR/>Be serious, while I agree both should be punished, football is about playcalling and executing. Teams win because they are better at executing the plays (mostly because they have better players) However, when you give one side the illegally enhance advantage of the playcalling portion it's just downright unfair.<BR/><BR/>Joe(Orlando)Trey (formerly TF)https://www.blogger.com/profile/16016679366233865869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-89695068081103104292007-09-12T16:22:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:22:00.000-04:00Here is what is puzzling me with all the hoopla ov...Here is what is puzzling me with all the hoopla over this thing:<BR/><BR/>IF the Patriots were caught cheating in a game versus the Jets and only that game...<BR/><BR/>how is the punishment not: The games results are forfeited changing Patriots to loss and jets to win?<BR/><BR/>It seems like that would be the only logical move. You have evidence that they cheated in the process of winning a game, the seemingly perfectly fitting judgment is to take away what they gained from cheating.Allen Wedgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12511193372395131930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-89802956261910427892007-09-12T16:21:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:21:00.000-04:00Why don't they just make it legal to do this stuff...Why don't they just make it legal to do this stuff? <BR/><BR/>If the video was confiscated by the league, that means it never got back to the coaches in time for them to decipher and counterplan the signals anyway, no?<BR/><BR/>Or here's an idea, let the players call their own defenses. Eliminate coach-player headset communication altogether, and suddenly none of these coaches can be seen as master chess players controlling everything, and we'll just have a bunch of athletes determining the outcomes.Brian in Oxfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16053368055698118199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-64036572397936845282007-09-12T16:18:00.000-04:002007-09-12T16:18:00.000-04:00Belichick is a robot...I seriously doubt he gives ...Belichick is a robot...I seriously doubt he gives a frog's fat arse about being in the HOF.Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11071405721004631626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-51355581889673018752007-09-12T15:56:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:56:00.000-04:00I think I would expect the same punishment that I'...I think I would expect the same punishment that I'm expecting for the Pats. A 2nd and 5th or 6th round pick and a fine. <BR/><BR/>And my other reaction would also be the same and that is how the hell could they be so stupid to be so blatant about it??<BR/><BR/>I also think that this is definitely no worse than the Broncos winning back to back SBs in years where they illegally circumvented the salary cap and when they were caught 3 years later the team's punishment was the loss of a 3rd rounder and (I think) a $950k fine.The Mark Showhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03797641159879108200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-85493068078808386882007-09-12T15:37:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:37:00.000-04:00They would never take away the Super Bowl wins, bu...They would never take away the Super Bowl wins, but they are now going to be lableed as cheaters regardless. So whenever Pats fans talk about how great all those teams are all you have to say is that they are a bunch of cheaters and that Big Bill is a world class jerk. Hey Congrats on the wins though, they were awesome.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16158660136368665061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-52228314325033714302007-09-12T15:32:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:32:00.000-04:00Agree that this isn't comparable to steroids, at a...Agree that this isn't comparable to steroids, at all. Taking steroids without a prescription is A. illegal in this country and B. a health risk (cancer, depression, 'roid rage, etc.). Videotaping another team is against NFL policy, but neither illegal nor dangerous.<BR/><BR/>Teams have always tried to decode other teams' signals, by hiring lip readers, buying audio tapes, or whatever. If they get caught, they should be punhised for breaking the rules, but Danwagon and some of the commenters' shock and outrage seem excessive. The Patriots should be punished, but for this incident only. I don't think their superbowl wins or past sucesses are tarnished at all. Although there are rumors of past spying, as far as I know, there isn't any solid evidence. <BR/><BR/>Oh, and do you think Belichick really gives a crap if he's in the Football Hall of Fame? I'm going with NO on that one.eileenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15435132755332951836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-35291519041324356482007-09-12T15:30:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:30:00.000-04:00BTW Mark, what would be your reaction if it was th...BTW Mark, what would be your reaction if it was the Colts who got caught cheating?Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16158660136368665061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-13343492367206245132007-09-12T15:29:00.001-04:002007-09-12T15:29:00.001-04:00You say that the Pats are a team that is smart and...You say that the Pats are a team that is smart and well-run. Well they are only considered smart and well-ran because they win (you never hear that about losing teams) and maybe they have been able to win consistantly because they cheat not because the are smart and well-run. And smart can definately go out the window now that they have been caught cheating.Scooter McGavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10554224092085223479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33624629.post-20093958626236497832007-09-12T15:29:00.000-04:002007-09-12T15:29:00.000-04:00If the lions were cheating nobody woul care becaus...If the lions were cheating nobody woul care because clearly they got no advantage out of it. They haven't had a winning season since Bush's father was pres.Jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16158660136368665061noreply@blogger.com