Friday, October 12, 2007

Friday 10/12 A.M. Quickie:
NLCS! ALCS! NFL! CFB! Midnight Madness! More!

Today's Names to Know: Jeff Francis, Justin Upton, CC Sabathia, Josh Beckett, BCS, Chase Daniel, Glenn Dorsey, Vinny Testaverde, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Grant Hill, John Schuerholz, Dennis Franchione, Kobe Bryant, Midnight Madness and More!

MLB Playoffs: NLCS. Rockies take Game 1 in Arizona, win 18th of 19. On the road or at home. In the regular season or the playoffs. Against sizzling teams or struggling teams. Against East Coast opponents or intra-division rivals. Against spot-starters or Cy Young winners. With or without bottles thrown on the field. It doesn't matter. The Rockies roll on.

Stud: Jeff Francis, who out-pitched Brandon Webb. The Dud was either Justin Upton, for that iffy slide ruled interference that triggered a double-play and the ire of previously flaccid Arizona fans, or to Larry Vanover for making the controversial call. Not sure it would have mattered. Not sure the D'backs can do ANYTHING to stop the Rockies right now. (How about that fan revolt after the Upton play? I think they were just channeling their frustration at not being able to keep up with the sizzling Rockies.)

MLB Playoffs: ALCS. Sabathia vs. Beckett in Boston. I'm not picking against Beckett in the postseason.

Yankees' decision on Torre pushed back to next week: So much for speculation that they would let him go immediately after the playoffs ended for the Yankees. (That's all I have to say about that; let's try something different and not talk about the Yankees today.)

CFB Top 25 Preview and Picks: After the last two weeks, I think fans need/deserve a break. Some sort of low-upset weekend where the top teams simply win – and we all wait for the insanity of the first BCS poll to come out after the weekend.

Presuming no upsets (iffy), the question is this: Which team will join LSU in the uber-coveted first two spots in the BCS poll? It's either going to be Cal or Ohio State, depending on their wins. Cal would appear to have the inside track, taking on a conference foe, while Ohio State takes on a non-BCS team.

(Two other teams deserve consideration for that No. 2 spot: South Florida and Mizzou. If Mizzou can beat Oklahoma on the road, that would be as impressive as Cal beating Oregon on the road, which -- so far -- is the most impressive win of the year. Unfortunately for BC, beating Notre Dame – even in South Bend – just ain't what it used to be.)

Of other particular interest: Does LSU suffer any kind of let-down after the huge Florida win at Kentucky? How badly does BC beat Notre Dame? Is South Florida in for a shocker over in-state directional rival UCF? What does USC look like after the Stanford loss? Can Illinois keep it going? And, in the game of the week, will Missouri come out of Norman unscathed? (If they do, they should be in the Top 5.)

1 LSU over at 17 Kentucky
2 Cal over Oregon State
3 Ohio State over Kent State
4 BC over at Notre Dame
5 South Florida over UCF
11 Missouri over at 6 Oklahoma (Game of the Week!)
7 South Carolina over at UNC
9 Oregon over Washington State
10 USC over Arizona
12 Virginia Tech over at Duke
14 Arizona State over Washington
15 Cincinnati over Louisville
16 Hawaii over at San Jose State
18 Illinois over at Iowa
19 Wisconsin over at Penn State
20 Kansas over Baylor
Arkansas over 22 Auburn (Upset Special)
23 Texas over at Iowa State
24 Georgia over at Vandy
25 Tennessee over at Mississippi State

Here's a fun preview from EDSBS' Orson Swindle, now writing weekly for the Sporting News.

Meanwhile, Glenn Dorsey for Heisman? It's not a crazy thought, with even the most talented offensive player (Darren McFadden), most valuable offensive player (Tim Tebow), most NFL-prized offensive player (Brian Brohm) and the standard whoever-is-playing-QB-for-USC all having their own flaws. The NYT's influential Pete Thamel makes the case. If it was ever going to happen, this would be the year.

Last night: Wake Forest beats FSU. I'm not sure why I had FSU at No. 23 on my BlogPoll ballot this week. I must have been on something. Needless to say, I won't be making the same mistake again.

(Remember when FSU losing to Wake Forest seemed like an insane proposition? Congrats to Jim Grobe for keeping last season's momentum going at Wake this season. As for FSU, they REALLY need to move on from the Bowden Era. Rich Rodriguez would look good on the FSU sidelines, though I'm sure they'd make a play for Bowden protege Mark Richt at Georgia.)

NFL Week 6 Preview and Picks

Everything else on Sunday and Monday is a distant second to the huge battle of unbeatens: Patriots at Cowboys. But here's the thing: The Pats are going to wax them, just like they've waxed everyone else. Even more so, I'll bet, because thumping the next-best team in the league sends an even clearer message that we're witnessing 19-0.

At Bears over Vikings
At Browns over Dolphins
At Packers over Redskins
Bengals over at Chiefs
Eagles over at Jets
Titans over at Bucs
Jaguars over Texans
Ravens over Rams
Cardinals over Panthers
Pats over at Cowboys (GOTW)
Chargers over Raiders
Seahawks over Saints (SNF)
Giants over Falcons (MNF)

Oh, wait, there IS an intriguing storyline beyond Pats-Cowboys: Will Vinny Testaverde start for the Panthers on Sunday, just days after the 43-year-old joined the team? That is awesome, and infinitely more interesting than seeing David Carr start with that sore back.

John Schuerholz resigns as GM of Braves: I didn't particularly like his philosophy when I read about it during his book tour earlier this year, but I certainly respect the way he put together all those titles. (Sorry: Division titles. Wouldn't want to confuse him with a guy who won multiple World Series championships.) He will remain the No. 2 guy in the franchise, which should make his replacement, Assistant GM Frank Wren, a little uneasy. Can't imagine Schuerholz will let it go.

Texas A&M doesn't like Dennis Franchione's secret email newsletter to boosters: I give him points for creativity (with points docked for sheer stupidity – either he was stupid to think he wouldn't get caught or stupid to think it wasn't a big deal). Apparently, he has violated his contract; if A&M wants to oust him, this is their opportunity. It also makes me wonder if I could make any money with my little online "newsletter"...

NBA Preseason: Grant Hill made his preseason debut with the Suns, and he finished with 17 and 8 as a starter playing 24 minutes. He's in for a Renaissance... Al Horford led all rebounders in Atlanta's win over Charlotte... LeBron's new running buddy Devin Brown had 10 and 10 in a Cavs win over Detroit... Marco Bellinelli had 18 points, and if he gets enough minutes (and shots), he could be Kevin Durant's top challenger for Rookie of the Year.

Trade-Kobe Watch: Meanwhile, off of yesterday's news that Jerry Buss would (or is that "will?") trade Kobe, what is a reasonable offer? The Lakers can't get equal value back in terms of talent, but I argue they can get better.

(Maybe not better enough to contend in the West, but they weren't going to contend in the West with Kobe anyway. On the other hand, any East bubble team that might get Kobe could easily turn into the conference-winning spoiler. As LeBron proved a year ago, you don't need more than a single superstar to win the East.)

Today's Must-Read: Whenever The Big Picture comes out with another blogger interview, it's a must-read. Today: Brian from Awful Announcing, one of the most popular and talented bloggers out there.

College Hoops: Midnight Madness! Is it me, or is Midnight Madness not the "event" it used to be. It used to be a lot more "underground" and fun. I loved the live look-ins on TV, the weird dunk contests, the novelty of students and fans going crazy at such a weird hour. (Hat-tip: Lefty Dreisell.) It's a little bit more of a slick production now, with a lot of teams dropping the whole "midnight" part, which consequently guts the "madness" part.)

Anyway, is it too early for Final Four predictions? (No, I'm not taking Florida to three-peat. Although they will be better than predicted by "experts," who don't have them ranked in the preseason Top 25.) But let me make a tangential Gators reference anyway:

Without their Final Four nemesis of the past two years blocking the way, this year's national champion will be...


Basketball Prospectus launches: Congrats to Ken "KenPom" Pomeroy and John "Wonk" Gasaway on the launch of Basketball Prospectus this week. (I guess their own version of "Midnight Madness.")

Here's the link, and it should immediately go into your daily rotation. Here's their tip-off link and a link to their ACC overview.

-- D.S.


Unknown said...

Dan, how was that interference call 'iffy'? Upton slid, rolled up and over, sticking his arm out to hit the 2nd baseman. He ended up 5 feet behind the bag.
It may be the playoffs, but that doesn't mean rules suddenly mean less. Had Upton simply slid into his legs, instead of trying to stand up and get Matsui's torso, he'd have been fine.

Unknown said...

UCF can, and I say will, beat South Florida. Cincy is feeling a little too full of itself, I think they go down too.

and UConn will rule the BEast.

David Kippe said...

Why is there no excitment anymore with Midnight Madness? Did I miss a drop off in interest to college basketball? I wanna see what they are doing in East Lansing!

Matt T said...

No way Richt leaves Georgia for FSU. He's said numerous times he wants to be at one place. He's very involved in the community, his wife and kids are all involved, he believes in staying in one place. That's why it took him so long to leave FSU. And he's not of Saban's ilk to say that and then leave.

The Schuerholtz thing came out of nowhere. He's staying on as team Prez, which I hope means he can add some payroll TO GET SOME PITCHING

Luke Bell said...

Usually they burn couches in East Lansing when anything remotely exciting happens.

Qwagmire said...

Rafael hit the nail on the head with Upton. The only "iffy" thing about the call with me was why Upton wasn't tossed out of the game?

Playoffs are playoffs, but that was an easy call for the ump. Hell if the Cardinals secondary wrapped up and tackled that well their record would be better than 3 and 2!

Ed Chavis said...

Is it just me, or do all the NFL games this weekend look like matchups between struggling teams (except Titans/Bucs and Pats/'Boys)? Packers/Skins would have looked interesting, except that it looks like the Packers took three giant steps backwards last Sunday night in the 2nd half.

If the Colts have a bye, shouldn't the Peyton commercials get a bye week, too?

jhawkjjm said...

Missouri won't beat Oklahoma. It's guaranteed at least twice a year that Missouri's coach Pinkel will cost them a game. He tried his hardest in the Illinois game going for two when when they were up 13 after the TD, leading to Illinois being down only 6 when they were picked off in the endzone at the end. He'll do something so stupid against Oklahoma that they'll lose.

CMFost said...

The call was not "iffy" nor was it controversial it was the Right call. Why is it every time an umpire makes a call he should that because it is normally not called it becomes "iffy".

David Kippe said...

I was at a bar on the otherside of campus when the first riot started, the ironic thing was that it was all about drinking...

CMFost said...

My Upset of the weekend and it kills me to say this but Notre Dame is going to beat Boston College.

chitown italian said...

giggity giggity goo, alright!

Sorry, just had to be done.

I think USF wins this weekend but don't they have LSU scheduled? If so they lose to LSU and make a BCS game because I don't see them losing.

It should be interesting to see how Sanchez does this week. It amazes me that Booty! Booty! Booty! regressed so much from last year. Not sure if he was over confident coming into this year or what. Maybe he put money on SC to lose last weekend and made a killing in Vegas.

I too think Mizzou takes OU. Not sure why, I just have a feeling the way this year has gone that nothing is impossible.

I like LSU to run the table and win out. They are amazing this year. I am just not sure who they will play in the championship game.

David Kippe said...

the people who USUALLY think it is iffy, are people who grew up watching AL baseball, where that was never called.

Unknown said...

About Upton's slide....

It's the same thing that happend earlier this year in that Mets/Phils game. Every analyst who never played said that it was interference.

The important thing is that every former player thought it was OK. Last night I heard Cal Ripken, Ron Darling, Frank Thomas, John Kruk, Eric Young, and Orel Hershieser all say that it was clean.

Some pointed out that it was the wrong thing to do because he should have known that it might have been called but they agreed it shouldn't have been.

To us it may look wrong, but the reality is that it is part of baseball and the guys said that you were taught that when you are hit by a pitch (which is how Upton got on base) you "take somebody with you".

Cal said that because of all the TV angles, players have recently stopped pointing at the 2nd baseman or shortstop in those situations to indicate that if there was a play at 2nd they were going down.

That's why it's iffy.

CMFost said...

Guy, the take out slide is part of baseball but there is a line that Upton went past that made in interference. Upton intentionally put his arms up and into the player past the base which make it the right call by the umpire and not iffy.

The only way that would be an iffy call would be if it happen before the base.

Unknown said...

rafael, I agree. It was the obviously correct call by the umps. Arizona fans may not like it but they got it right.

It seems USF is taking the recruits from Florida State and Miami. Would be interesting to see those two storied programs slip back. Also interesting how the ACC tried to make a power play for East Coast football supremacy and the Big East is ranked higher and has better top teams now. Then again, the top ACC teams are former BE teams so maybe it was a good move.

Rockies are unreal. I have never seen something like this in sports where a team just went from a mediocre season to unstoppable to winning 17 out of 18.

Unknown said...

"(Sorry: Division titles. Wouldn't want to confuse him with a guy who won multiple World Series championships.)"

Actually you would want to confuse him with a guy who won multiple World Series championships. Or you wouldn't be confusing him with a guy who won multiple World Series championships.

OK, I screwed that up. Basically my point was that he was the GM of the Royals from 1981-1990 before he was the Braves' GM.

The Royals won the World Series in 1985 and the Braves won in 1995.

CMFost said...

cycledan said ..."Rockies are unreal. I have never seen something like this in sports where a team just went from a mediocre season to unstoppable to winning 17 out of 18."

Think the 2001 Patriots. They Started 1-3 and were 5-5 after week 10, then one there final 6 games plus 3 playoffs games to win the Super Bowl.

Richard K. said...

Nothing about John David Booty getting benched for Mark Sanchez?

Darklawdog said...

Did you say the Cowboys were the 2nd best team in the league?

Umm, I bet the Colts have something to say about that.

Unknown said...


That isn't even close to right. The procedure for a takeout slide is to slide late.

The reason it was said to be clean is that not only could he touch the base but he did.

Somebody said that the arm sticking up is cancelled out by touching the base. If he hadn't touched the bag it would have been called.

Unknown said...

The whole thing that is strange about the interference call in baseball is that unlike in other sports, there is no penalty. Assume that it would be a double play anyhow and all that happens when it is called is that the guy is out at first who would have been out in any event.

Now I finally have a reason to root for the Rockies over the Backs. Arizona fans are weak.

Unknown said...

richard k.-

He wasn't really benched. He's injured. That's why it's no big deal.

Unknown said...

Have to disagree Guy.

You are allowed to take out fielder if you are in the act of going for the base. You can't push the fielder obviously, grab his hand just because you are touching the base. Raising the arm is what put it over the top and made it interference. If he doesn't raise the arm, then I would have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Unknown said...


Incorrect. No runners are allowed to advance any bases on a play that is called interference.

The situation at the time of this play was runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs. Upton was called out at 2nd, the batter was called out at first, and the runner who started at 2nd had to go back to 2nd.

The most famous case might be the A-Rod slapping the glove play. If you remember it was worse than if he just allowed himself to be tagged because not only was he out, but the runners had to go back to their bases including someone who was on 3rd and would've scored.

David Kippe said...

so who is gonna make the statement that this is why we should have instant replay...oops. btw i hate the idea as most of you know.

Unknown said...

This wasn't one of the plays that was on the instant replay proposal anyway.

CMFost said...

Here is the MLB Rule on Interference for a base runner, pay particular attention to the words UMPIRES JUDGEMENT

It is interference by a batter or a runner when --

(e) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner.
(f) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a batter-runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead; the umpire shall call the batter-runner out for interference and shall also call out the runner who had advanced closest to the home plate regardless where the double play might have been possible. In no event shall bases be run because of such interference.

PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.

David Kippe said...

i know, just saying...

pv845 said...

Not that I know a lot about baseball but it seemed to me that because he popped up (and sideways) to break up the DP that he was called out. I think if he lays flat then that it is nothing.

Unknown said...

I dont think it needs replay. I think the players are wrong.
Again, it was the raised arm and the attempt to grab Matsui that was the worst thing. Upton was just overzealous.
Touching the bag should not negate that.
IMO, that's the kind of thinking that leads to idea like "you should never call pass interference with fifty seconds left" or other similar lines of bullshit.
Upton, clearly, interfered with the thrower. He ended up well past the bag, which means his intent was not to slide into 2nd. It was to take out the baseman. That's interference.

David Kippe said...

the call was right based on the rule. why is this being argued?

two missed calls in baseball is everytime Andy Pettitte balks, he does it on every pitch thats why it is not caleld, and the ground rule double when a runner has already rounded second on a hit and run. most misinterpreted rule in baseball. he should get home because it is the base he is going to plus 1. but they play it as second base always as the base he is going to instead. correct me of course if i am wrong...

Cody said...

I'm just a casual baseball fan, hardley ever watch during the regular season but I do enjoy watching playoff baseball for some reason. I agree that it was interference, nothing iffy about it, but can someone explain why the base runner that was on second going to third had to go back to second? Even if the double play was turned cleanly, that runner would still have made third. I was just wondering this last night and it wasn't explained.

Cody said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CMFost said...

Sparty the ground rule double awards each runner 2 base from the time of the pitch. Where the runner is at the time the ball leaves the playing field has no bearing as to what bases the runners get.

Actually where the runners are when a ball leaves the playing field has no basis as to what base they get even on an overthrow.

Boomhauertjs said...

The Suns shouldn't be relying on Grant Hill. There's no way his fragile body will hold up for an entire season, especially playing at the pace the Suns do. He couldn't make it through a full season with the slow-paced Magic. They should've gotten another low-post defender to stop Tim Duncan instead of another wing player.

CMFost said...

cody - was interference was called the ball is dead and any runners not called out need to go back to the base they where on based on the rule of the ball being dead and once the ball is dead you can not advance to another base.

David Kippe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David Kippe said...

show me the rule...

Jen said...

I remember Albert Belle plowing down Fernando Vina in the baseline from first to second but I don't remember the call...anyone, anyone?

All I can remember is Vina crying about it, so I am thinking Belle got away with it. (not a shock)

CMFost said...

rule 6.09

(e) A fair ball, after touching the ground, bounds into the stands, or passes through, over or under a fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery, or vines on the fence, in which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to advance two bases;
(f) Any fair ball which, either before or after touching the ground, passes through or under a fence, or through or under a scoreboard, or through any opening in the fence or scoreboard, or through or under shrubbery, or vines on the fence, or which sticks in a fence or scoreboard, in which case the batter and the runners shall be entitled to two bases;

CMFost said...

sparty here is also a very good interpretation of the rule from WIKI

check it out

David Kippe said...

ok, so where is the idea that it is from when the ball is pitched...

Jingoist said...

"(Maybe not better enough to contend in the West, but they weren't going to contend in the West with Kobe anyway. On the other hand, any East bubble team that might get Kobe could easily turn into the conference-winning spoiler. As LeBron proved a year ago, you don't need more than a single superstar to win the East.)"

I'm disappointed Dan- that is a very un-quickie like statement, shrouded in sports history instead of your sensitivity to instant-history-like prose.

Only one problem with that Eastern Conference Theory now- the Boston Celtics and their new "Three Headed Monster"- K.G. Pierce, and Allen. The East was up for grabs with just 1 superstar.

David Kippe said...

i just looked at the rule on MLB and nothing is said about from when the ball is pitched, but maybe i am looking at the wrong location...

TJ said...

UCF definitely can beat USF, and nearly did last year in Orlando. Plus, UCF is absolutely desperate to win tomorrow. USF has very publicly declared that they want no part of a yearly rivalry matchup with UCF--that USF wants to be a legit BCS power with BCS (not conference USA) rivals. This is why USF is dumping UCF after this year and adding a yearly game against Miami.

UCF, of course, says USF are just being arrogant assholes, but realize they need to actually win a game against USF to have any sort of claim to a rivalry. Honestly, this is easily the most important game to the UCF program since their bowl game 2 years ago. UCF's power running game is exactly the thing USF has the most trouble stopping on defense, so it could be interesting.

That said, USF had their wake-up call last week, and playing at home (in front of a second straight sellout crowd) will be enough for USF to overcome a pumped up UCF. The USF coaches will likely limit what Grothe is asked to do through the air, relying on spread-style WR reverses, the stable of running backs, and spread-style QB runs to hopefully cut down on turnovers.

Now the real point: if USF wins, with their SOS, they'll probably still be #2 or #3 in all the computers. If USF wins comfortably, the humans won't have any reason to bump the Bulls lower than 6 (where theyll drop once Oklahoma beats Missouri to sure up the #5 spot.) So at #6 in both polls and #2/#3 in the computers, I think USF will be a surprising (to many people) 4 or 5 in the BCS this week, with a real chance to run the table and make things interesting.

David Kippe said...

wait, is the goal to win your conference or win the league? Even Michael couldn't win the whole thing without a partner like Pippen.

CMFost said...

OK, sparty then you show me the rule that say it is from the time the ball leaves the field. Believe me you can check the MLB, College Baseball, USSSA, Little League, ASA and Cal Ripken league rule books and not find it.

When it says the runner can advance to bases it mean the runner is only entitled to 2 bases, meaning if they are on first they advance 2 base to 3rd.

Ask any umpire and I can send you a list of emails to ask them and the will tell you the runners get to bases no matter when the ball leaves the field.

CMFost said...

hey sparty answer this question,

A ball is thrown from the out field and goes out of play. When the ball is thrown the runner is just about to tag second base, when the ball goes out of play the runner is on there way to 3rd base. What base do you put the runner on?

David Kippe said...

thats my point cmfost, it is either interpreted poorly, or is a poorly written rule. from the way the rule is written, it penalizes teams for executiing a hit and run. Yes, Jason Giambi may not get to second base, even if not a hit and run, but Jose Reyes will be way past second.

marcomarco said...

I'll bet, because thumping the next-best team in the league sends an even clearer message that we're witnessing 19-0.

Hi, my name is Peyton Manning, and I don't the the Cowboys are the next-best team. But, I do soil my shorts every time i think about week 9.

David Kippe said...

well, that rule states from when the wild throw was made. but the ground rule double is not written that way.

CMFost said...

the rule is interpreted correctly but it may be written poorly. the one thing you learn when you become an umpire is that it is never about when the ball goes out of play. With a ground rule double it about when the play started, with an overthrow it is about when the ball was thrown never about when it goes out of play.

David Kippe said...

I know individual little leagues actually have the runner half way rule. so if the runner was half to second he gets third and home. dumb but true.

The heroin sheik said...

It is tough deciding who I want to win more this weekend. I took classes at one school and got a useless degree from another. I am going with You Can't Fail in the upset only because no one gives them any attention and George O'leary is really building his team the right way. Of course it also helps that they have one of the best rb's in Div I. Maybe I can wear one of those gay half UCF half USF jerseys.

David Kippe said...

but what about pettitte? i am a yankee fan and he balks everytime!

Gary said...

Sparty, Cmfost, I think you guys are thinking of Fan Interference.

The Umpire can use his judgement if a ball that would normally stay in play is pulled out of play by a fan.

For instance, A ball hit down the right field line in Fenway, it bangs around in the corner for a few seconds, the baserunner is on his way to third when an overzealous fan reaches over the wall and pockets the ball. The Umpire calls for a deadball, notices that the baserunner was on his way to third before a fielder even touched the ball, so the umpire can decide where the runner would have ended up (in his judgement) if the ball had not been interfered with by a fan. That's where the automatic 2nd base thing doesn't come into play.

Maybe that clears things up a bit

David Kippe said...

no, that is not what we are discussing.

David "SirFozzie" Yellope said...

Poor Poor Agent Zero Gilbert Arenas got exposed as a cheat and a fraud today, as an investigation found that he had illegally boosted his Halo score. And he's admitted it..

It's a glitch," he explained. "It's a glitch in the game. I seen some kids that were like 600s, they won 600 Halo games and we only had that game for two weeks. And all the kids go to school. So I'm like, 'What the hell you all doing?' And they said that's what they doing, two-on-two."

Will the NBA scandals never end? I think Stern should be calling Arenas into his office right about now..

(Note, Blogger doesn't support sarcasm tags, unfortunately)

David Kippe said...

nothing bothers me more than glitches, moreso in madden. pisses me off!

CMFost said...

Sparty said...

no, that is not what we are discussing.

exactly we are not talking about fan interference we are talking about the true definition of a ground rule double.

ToddTheJackass said...

Totally agree Sparty, Pettite's pickoff move is a ridiculous balk. Whether or not it is by the strict interpretation of the rule a balk, it has to violate the spirit of why the rule was made... oh well...

As far as the Upton slide, what got me was that there was a secondary action. He took a (legal) hard slide, but then after the slide he popped up and threw his arm/shoulder, an action that was clearly made after the slide, and not part of even what could be considered a "hard sliding motion". That's why I think it was correctly called interference.

Also, someone referenced the A-Rod/Arroyo slap play, and if I recall correctly, Jeter was on first at the time, and only scored because the ball got away. The difference between the slap and the non-slap would've been Jeter on 2nd/1st, not home plate/1st.

ToddTheJackass said...

And Dan, I take objection to your homerism call of Tim Tebow as the "Most Valuable Offensive" player in College Football. Florida would have lots of offense even without Tebow, but BC would definitely not be where they are without Matt Ryan.

I know BC's schedule hasn't been good at all compared to some teams', but there's still no way in hell they'd be where they are if not for Matt Ryan.

Tebow may be more flashy, have more raw talent, but there's no doubt in my mind that Matt Ryan means a lot more to his offense than Tim Tebow to his. And right now, BC is undefeated, while Tebow's team has lost 2 in a row I believe.

The heroin sheik said...

Shame we wont have a Rays/ D'backs game til 09. It would be sweet to watch little brother Upton try to take out his brother's knee at second. Then watch Delmon young come running in from the outfield to beat little brother Upton with a bat. Of course BJ blows at fielding so we will probably will have to keep him in the outfield. Is there really any team in baseball you would least like to get into a brawl with. We have a drafted a crackhead we had to cut in Josh Hamilton, a guy we know rides out packing in elijah dukes, and a guy who beats umpires with bats in Young. I bet there are some ticking time bombs in our clubhouse. I can't remember the Rays ever really getting into a brawl but if they did I am sure it will get out of control.

David Kippe said...

yeah, i thought when Andy went to Houston he would be called more often because the National League umps had not seen it and would not accept it. but then i realized, no such thing anymore. which raises my next question. The ump that made te call last night, was he at one time an exclusively NL ump? The NL use to call interference a lot, and you would not see it called in AL ball as often, for whatever reason.

David Kippe said...

Dan is looking for something to grab on to because the national title has slipped away from the Gators, and quite possibly a conference title. He has nothing else to get excited about with the Gators besides Tebow.

Unknown said...

I liked the Rockies section you wrote the first time I read it when it was written by Jayson Stark.

The heroin sheik said...

Sparty a true gator fan will tell you the biggest game is Georgia. The true test of whether Dan is a real fan is how he feels going into that game and the FSU game. It sucks that FSU sucks this year. I am as big a homer as you get and I don't think Tebow should win the Heisman. If you disregard position, I would go with Selvie from USF. He is having possibly the best season ever for a DE. Of course he has no shot in hell.

Unknown said...

Andy Pettite's move is not a balk because he does it every time. That "rule" (read: interpretation) was invented for Hideo Nomo. He stopped halfway through his motion everytime. But the umpires decided that because he does it every time it isn't considered a balk because he isn't using it to fool a baserunner.

This carries over to Pettite.

Gary said...

There are no AL and NL umps anymore. All the umps officiate in both throughout the season

Geoff said...

Yeah, I thought Dan calling Tebow the offensive MVP was grasping at straws myself. Without Tebow they probably still have exactly 2 losses. A lot of other teams would be way more screwed if they lost their best offensive player.

David Kippe said...

that was not my question gary. i am well aware of that. my question was which league did he ump in prior to the integration.

David Kippe said...

but Pettite was doing it prior to Nomo, no? lol. that sounds funny.

David Kippe said...

and what is it with the Asian hesitation on their motions? is that taught? I cannot think of anyone else who does that in the league. Wang does that too.

Unknown said...


Pettite's pause used to be less exaggerated. After they mad the rule for Nomo he made it the way it is now.

ToddTheJackass said...

There are quite a few non-Asians who incorporate some kind of hesitation/deception. Jered Weaver does it, and if I recall correctly Tyler Clippard does as well. Those are two who come to mind. Not quite with hesitations, but certainly guys like Jenson Lewis or El Duque throw with some deception from a funky delivery.

The reason I'm guessing that a lot of the Japanese pitchers do it is that traditionally in the Japanese game that there have not been many guys who could throw in the mid-90s (and guys who could often didn't last from extreme overuse), so it became more important to be able to pitch with some sort of deception. Really it's I think a good thing so long as pitchers can repeat their deliveries well, the motion doesn't cause undue stress on your shoulder, and can still be effective pitching from the stretch.

Trey (formerly TF) said...

The heroin sheik said...
Sparty a true gator fan will tell you the biggest game is Georgia. The true test of whether Dan is a real fan is how he feels going into that game and the FSU game. It sucks that FSU sucks this year.

What are you 70?

There are the old old school Gator fans that say UGA is UF's biggest game. It's a game I've gone to every year since my first year at UF and have a reunion with all my old roomates and friends at every year.

However, as someone who grew up on campus at UF and been attending games since it was still acceptable to piss myself FSU is the biggest game bar none.

UGA is a close 2nd.

TBender said...

A little late on the Upton play but...

Once he used his arm to draw the contact and then rolled through Matsui, the ump had to call it interference. In HS baseball, that move would be considered a roll block and it would be interference, ejection, and probably suspension.

Upton slid to the proper side of the bag. He could have rolled over low and would have been just as effective.

I remember the Belle-Vina play. Nothing was called. I think the umpires ruled Vina was at fault for obstructing the baseline. (Which I still don't believe, but I'm a former middle infielder.)

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

My favorite take on the Upton play was by Todd Helton. He said that it was a good hard slide. Then all the reporters were dead silent like "Did you just say that the ump was wrong and the call shouldn't have gone your way despite the fact that one of your teammates could've gotten hurt?"

Then the silence breaks because another reporter asks what Helton thought of the D'Backs' fans throwing stuff on the field and Helton said that they were upset because it was a bad call and rightfully so.

I was so confused by this I just paused and stared at my TV for like 15 seconds.

TBender said...

Wow. Love the honesty. I think he's wrong, but love the honesty.

And speaking of Helton, he was quoted and shown so much yesterday that I wondered if TBS hired him a guest commentator for the series.

marcomarco said...

and what is it with the Asian hesitation on their motions? is that taught? I cannot think of anyone else who does that in the league. Wang does that too.

I think they got it from Mr. Miyagi.

Kurt said...

Yankees reportedly leaning to keep Torre


CMFost said...

My College Football upset of the week: Notre Dame over BC

My Pro football upset of the week: St.Louis over baltimore

CMFost said...

second NFL Upset New Orleans will win there first game this week.

Oh Yeah and the Patriots win in a walk. 34-10

CMFost said...

Kurt thanks for being the only person who did not read the quickie today.

Beetle said...

Hey Todd,
Agreed about the Tebow Matt Ryan comparison.
Ryan is the most NFL ready QB in college football right now.
He makes all the throws with zip and accuracy and rarely makes poor decision.
Sure, maybe Tebow does have more "talent", but many guys in the NFL have more talent than Brady, but if you are a poor decision maker under pressure or if you try to force plays to happen (know as "Favring" it) than talent does not matter too much.

Beetle said...

I think in the Belle - Vina play, Vina tagged Belle for the third out. So no interference was called or was necessary. It was just a typical ass**** play by Belle, bullying someone who is giving up a 100 pounds. Probably roid rage.

The heroin sheik said...

tf my mom went to UGA and my dad played at UF so I was always raised with that being the big game but there really is little difference between the two although I think it gets rowdier at the cocktail party.

As if it couldn't get any worse for UF we have a player die last night. I t is just neverending this year it seems.

ToddTheJackass said...

Sucks that the UF scout team guy died, but riding a motorcycle over the speed limit at 1am while not wearing a helmet ain't the brightest thing to do. It's sad, but... you know?

CMFost said...

What is more likely to happen the Pats,Colts or Cowboys go undefeated or the Rams or Dolphins go winless?

The heroin sheik said...

Dolphins going winless. Its Lemon time. Funny the only undefeated and winless teams are both from Florida. I think it just easier to lose every game because guys give up sometimes.

Jon said...

The Belle-Vina play is legal. It's just like a homeplate collision. Belle was a little excessive, but it's within the rules. Similar play happened this earlier year between Lowell-Cano.

ToddTheJackass said...

At least Lowell/Cano are about the same size. That's what made the Belle/Vina play so memorable... that and that Albert Belle was just a complete asshole anyway.

kway34 said...

Didn't see this browsing through the comments, Penn State tailback Austin Scott has been charged with rape and sexual assault.

Andy Roberts said...

Why are we so confident in BC? Their best win is a road win over 3-3 Georgia Tech. Their other W's are:

NC State
Bowling Green

All at home, and all giving up at least 14 points.

Honestly, as an ND fan I'm much more worried about ND than BC in that game. If Notre Dame can put together an offense (and BC's defense will be the 2nd-worst that Notre Dame has played this year behind Purdue's) then I wouldn't be surprised to see the Eagles fold like a tent.

CMFost said...

Andy - BC defense is pretty good,

3rd in the nation against the run
24th against the pass
39th total defense
they also have close to the most interceptions in college football.

And there offense is very good also.

Beetle said...

Hey Andy,
To quote Parcells, "You play the teams that are on your schedule".
Sure, they haven't really been tested yet, but BC is a very good team.
They should and probably will stomp ND into submission.
The only thing that worries me about this game is the karma of BC ruining NDs perfect season more than a decade ago.
The only ND wins is if Ryan starts Romo-ing the ball all over the field, and that just isn't gonna happen.

ToddTheJackass said...

Andy, what basis do you have for saying the BC's defense isn't good? Are you using 4th quarter garbage time points? Weed? And you're not at all worried about Matt Ryan? I mean, I'd be worried about Notre Dame too, since they're god awful, but give a little credit to BC man, come on.

"Fold like a tent..." Pretty bold talk from a fon of a team that's 1-5... it's true, though, beating Georgia Tech apparently doesn't count, since they ONLY beat Notre Dame 33-3... at Notre Dame.

Can we call you the Dan of Notre Dame fans for this kind of homerism?

CMFost said...

"Can we call you the Dan of Notre Dame fans for this kind of homerism?"

That has to be the line of the week, nice work todd

Jen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ToddTheJackass said...

And then Jen goes and tops my line by comparing Troy Smith's performance in the NC game to a lethal motorcycle accident.

Nice work Jen. I'm good enough to know when I have been beaten.

Beetle said...

Hey CMFost,
Just checked out your blogger profile.
Northshore kid huh? Same here.
Born and raised in Lynn.