Monday, March 05, 2007

Monday 03/05 A.M. Quickie:
College Hoops Insanity (and More!)

Monday uber-Quickie: Mason Mania! Duke thuggery! Putting the "ill" in "So. Ill."! Moss to the Pats? Pippen to the Lakers? Wright is the new Jeter! And more! (Keep reading!)

Today's analysis (with a heavy emphasis on college hoops), as I ponder if anyone in sports TV uses a more shit-eating grin than Seth Davis...

The biggest college hoops storyline coming out of the weekend? George Mason is back. Left for dead (or, at least, .500 and the NIT) this season after last year's uber-Cinderella NCAA run, the Patriots upset Old Dominion in the CAA Tourney semis – and are one win away from an improbable return to the NCAA Tournament.

(It's worth noting that the "Mason Strategy" is phenomenal: Do OK – but by no means Tournament-worthy – during the regular season, but then simply win the few games in a row necessary to win the automatic bid via conference tournament.)

UNC beats Duke in bloody mess: As this game wound down, I was all set to talk about how, for the second time this season, the UNC-Duke rivalry shows it ain't what it used to be. And then The Foul. What does it say that the image of the game was Tyler Hansbrough's face after getting clocked on a hard foul late? (He DID finish with 26 and 17, sewing up first-team All-American status – even if his NBA prospects roughly mirror Craig Smith's.)

Gerald Henderson's protest that the foul wasn't intentional doesn't pass the smell test. (And the ACC agreed, suspending Henderson for Duke's first-round ACC game vs. NC St.)

Kudos to USAToday.com lead blogger Beau Dure for being all over this story with some very interesting links. Here's the link, and kudos to USAToday.com on the redesign, particularly the more prominent placement of Dure's SportsScope blog.) And here's some audio I just got from the Duke flagship AM station.

Here's the upshot: This morning, Duke is getting a taste of its own medicine, being smacked around -- hard -- for the foul... and for Coach K's ludicrous attempts to spin it. Duke is not a great team AND they're thuggish. When did this year's Duke turn into last year's Temple?

Creighton tops "So. Ill." to win the Mo Valley tournament. Now, both teams were going to the Big Dance anyway, but if you saw The Big Lead on Saturday, you saw I was making the case for SIU as a 1-seed. Well, that didn't last the weekend. How far would I drop them? To a 3-seed at the highest. Amazingly, if they had won the MVC Tournament, I would have been able to present a compelling argument for their 1-seedness.

Meanwhile, Florida needed a little home cooking to right the ship. Their first half against Kentucky was iffy, but the second half looked like the old Gators again. I'm not going to elevate them to a 1-seed until I see how they do on the neutral court of the SEC Tournament.

And, from Saturday, in case you missed it: UCLA lost at Washington (no shame there), but I'd still give them a No. 1 seed. (Ohio State, too.) I'm ready to give Kansas a 1-seed IF they win the Big 12 Tournament. That comeback against Texas was awesome, but you have to wonder if they would have been able to do it if Durant had been playing uninjured. I don't think Kansas would have won that game. Durant was on fire.

(If you're keeping track, that means my current 1-seeds are: Ohio State, UCLA, UNC and Kansas. But, let me reiterate: Seeding doesn't mean anything, among the first 4 lines. Given last year's results – zero 1-seeds making the Final Four and a 3-seed winning it all – they are pretty meaningless. It's all about the specific bracket matchups.)

Teams Worthy of a 1-seed, in this order of priority if they win their conference tournaments (or in case anyone ahead of them on this list stumbles):

1. UCLA if they win the Pac-10 Tourney title.
2a. Ohio State if they win the Big Ten Tourney.
2b. Wisconsin if they win the Big Ten Tourney.*
3. UNC if they win the ACC Tourney.
4a. Kansas if they win the Big 12 Tourney.
4b. Texas A&M if they win the Big 12 Tourney.
5. Florida if they win the SEC Tourney.
6. Georgetown if they win the Big East Tourney.
7. Pitt if they win the Big East Tourney.

* - With the Big Ten tournament final happening AFTER the brackets are essentially in place, if Ohio State and Wisco both make the tournament title game, they will likely both earn 1-seeds. I don't want to hear the Big Ten griping EVER AGAIN about the timing of the OSU-Michigan football game vis a vis other conference title games and the BCS process. If the Big Ten title game happened Saturday, you know the runner-up between Ohio State and Wisconsin would have a very good chance of being bumped down to a 2-seed.

Bubble Watch 1: My pick (last week) of Georgia Tech to be IN looks awfully good now that they've knocked off UNC and BC in back-to-back games...

BW2: Speaking of ACC, what the hell will the Committee do with Clemson? The Tigers won at Tourney lock VA Tech to get a 7th ACC win. Could they really give bids to 8 ACC teams?...

BW3: Did Drexel play its way out of an at-large bid by losing in the semifinals of the CAA Tournament to VCU? (Old Dominion might have played its way out, too.)

Winthrop coach Greg Marshall is messing with the NCAA Tournament gods. He thinks his team is worthy of a much higher seed than they're going to get – or, frankly, that they deserve. Too much yapping will set him and his team up for the first-round bounce-out.

HAVE YOU SIGNED UP YET FOR THE "DAILY QUICKIE READERS" GROUP OF ESPN.COM'S TOURNAMENT CHALLENGE?

NBA: Pippen to the Lakers? Phil Jackson thinks he can work his mystical ways to get Scottie to be the Pippen to Kobe's Jordan (to get a little too meta about the whole thing). I suppose if Odom's shoulder injury seems problematic, it's a good fit. But, still: If Pippen wants to play for a contender, why would he play for the Lakers? (Related: Suns top Lakers.)

More NBA: Redd-Gordon duel! The pair combined for 100 points (Redd 52, Gordon 48), but BG has the last laugh, as the Bulls beat the Bucks.

More NBA: Wild ending to the Wizards-Warriors game! Down 2, Arenas was fouled while shooting with virtually no time left (tenth of a second). Don Nelson argued the call so vociferously that he got T'ed up. Arenas sank all three shots – the two free throws and the technical – to earn the win for the Wizards. Don't blame the refs; blame Nellie.

I'm sorry: Forbes.com has Kevin McHale ranked No. 1 on the list of Best GMs in Sports. That's "McHale" and "No. 1" and "Best" in the same list. There are contrarian viewpoints (which are often appreciated) and then there is simply the ludicrous and unbelievable.

NFL Rumor Mania: Randy Moss to the Pats?! That's what ProFootballTalk is hearing (via the Boston Herald). I don't know what Belichick and Pioli are smoking this offseason, but whatever it is, I like it. They must REALLY want to re-ascend to Super Bowl champ status.

NFL Free Agency: Cowboys sign OL Leonard Davis (too bad he can't hold on field goals)... The Jags signed Dennis Northcutt, who gives them an extra presence at WR and as a return guy... Ahman Green is not Reggie Bush, but he is an improvement on Dom Davis in the Texans backfield (if he can stay healthy)...

NFL Draft: Brady Quinn has his (Pro) Day. Vikings coach Brad Childress is quoted, which should fuel speculation that Minnesota will take Quinn if he's there, looking for the Cutler/Leinart-style steal as the draft sequence hits double-digits. (Romeo Crennel was also quoted, but I cannot believe the Browns would take him that high.)

MLB: I got my copy of Baseball Prospectus 2007 over the weekend, and -- needless to say -- it's an absolute must-have, as it is every year. It's very possible that this edition is the best one yet. (And, it's worth noting, the price point makes it arguably the best value of any get-you-ready-for-the-season publication.)

Well, here's one reason David Wright is the new Derek Jeter: Where Jeter was a huge (and anatomically improbable) dick/pussy (call it a "Der-maphrodite") about A-Rod's arrival to the Yankees, refusing to give up his position at shortstop even though A-Rod is the superior fielder and it would have been in the best interests of the team (but, yeah, sure, what a Captain!), Mets 3B David Wright said that if A-Rod came to the Mets, Wright would gladly give up 3B to have him.

If the Mets weren't in New York and about to pass the Yankees as the best team in the city, I'm quite sure that the Mets have the trade pieces (not to mention the cash) to get A-Rod from the Yankees.

It's a trade that would benefit both teams. The Yankees would get the next Bernie Williams (Lastings Milledge) and one of the Mets' many starting pitching prospects; the Mets would get the best 3B in the league and instantly one of the Top 5 hitters in the NL. And consider Rodriguez, Wright and Delgado as 3-4-5 in the Mets lineup.

NASCAR: It didn't take long for F-1 refugee Juan Pablo Montoya to win his first NASCAR race – or get into his first controversy. He spun out teammate Scott Pruett in order to take the lead and win the race. Pruett is predictably pissed, but Montoya is such a huge star-in-the-making that his griping is likely to be eclipsed.

Soccer: I totally missed talking about Beckham's knee injury this morning. Here's the reality: MLS doesn't need Beckham on the field as much as they simply need him to be the visible spokesperson for MLS' legitimacy. Oh, and to sell Galaxy jerseys.

Finally: You know, my biggest problem (of many) with Billy Packer is that he brings absolutely no joy to it. He's so humorless. Now, it's totally possible that the anti-Packer – Dickie V – brings TOO much joy and not enough critical eye. That's why the best analyst in college basketball is Bill Raftery (and when he tag-teams with Jay Bilas, creates the best two-headed analyst team in any sport). Show how smart YOU are: Sign up for the Daily Quickie Readers group of ESPN.com's Tournament Challenge.

(Update: Properly, Packer is getting crucified for his blind defense of Henderson's foul. It's not as bad as his performance last year on Selection Sunday, ripping on the mid-majors -- and, in particular, George Mason -- but it's up there among his Greatest Hits. Great link here via Gunslingers, h/t Deadspin.)

Reminder! NYC readers, don't forget that this Wednesday is the latest Varsity Letters Reading Series event at Happy Ending on the Lower East Side, featuring... well, me, among others that include writers from Deadspin, WithLeather, TrueHoop, The Dugout and Fear and Faith in Flushing. Click on the link for details -- and participant interviews!

-- D.S.

130 comments:

chitown italian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brian in Oxford said...

You are DEAD ON, Dan, about Packer, Vitale, and Raftery.

I'm pretty neutral for NC-Duke....but what the hell is with announcers emphasizing that Hansbrough was "still in there" near the end of the game? Suddenly Isiah Thomas ordered the Code Red by Henderson?

I was excited to hear Dice-K Friday night on the radio, and with no pregame for a spring training game, they were rushed into the first batter, so the double was *jarring* to say the least.

Anyone know Packer's contract status with CBS? Is it for life? (gulp!)

Troy (Gainesville, FL) said...

the "Mason Strategy" is phenomenal: Do OK – but by no means Tournament-worthy – during the regular season, but then simply win the few games in a row necessary to win the automatic bid via conference tournament

Wait. What the hell are you talking about? This strategy is phenomenal for what? For making the tourney? Why is that so good? Who ever wants to be a 14-seed at best? Why wouldn't George Mason rather get an at-large bid like last year so they don't have to open the tourney against a top 2-3 seed? I'm so confused here...

chitown italian said...

Well I just got back from Spring Training. To all you Cubs fans, if this team doesn't get any better be prepared for another sub .500 season.

God they are friggin awful.

Highlights, Zambrano, Lee, Murton, and Soriano.
Lowlights, Relief Pitching and anyone not named Lee, Murton, and Soriano!

Troy (Gainesville, FL) said...

Anyone see the Zambrano "guarantee"? Very typical Zamobrano; I like it. Even if it'll get thrown back in his face all year if the Cubs struggle.

@ chitown italian. You're Dennis Green in disguise aren't you? It's Spring Training. "If this team doesn't get any better"? It's spring training! If any team doesn't get better from right now it won't make the playoffs.

Matt T said...

Dickie V – brings TOO much joy and not enough critical eye.

Maybe because he only has 1 eye? Too easy.

I completely agree on Rafferty, he makes games so much more enjoyable. especially when he give the old "they compe out in the manaman"

CMFost said...

I think BC even with 10 wins in the ACC has become a bubble team. If they lose in the first round of the ACC tourney they are NIT bound.

I am not really sure about the Randy Moss to the Patriots rumors but if he is motivated the patriots offense is improved a ton and they have already improved the defense, they would probably be a DB or 2 away from being the clear Super Bowl Favorites.

I am going to repeat my predicition from last week DUKE will not make it out of the first round of the tourney.

Watched Matsuzaka on NESN and he stuff looks pretty good. That fastball of his is going to sneak up on batters, be interested to see when he faces Major league hitters tomorrow. Paps look sick taking care of Howard who was the first batter he faced. The AL East and the rest of league better watch out the Sox top 4 starters are going to be tough to hit off of.

DanShanoff.com said...

Here's what I mean by the "Mason Strategy": Why work your ass off over the course of the regular season when all you have to do is string together four wins in your conference tournament?

You overrate what it means for a non-major conference team to go far in the NCAA Tournament. It's a much bigger deal simply to make the NCAA tournament (with obvious exceptions from the highest-ranked mid-majors).

It's funny: This is the exact opposite of my "Marlins Strategy." The Marlins Strategy asks whether you'd rather win one World Series every 7 years, but suck in the other six years (versus making the playoffs in all 7 years, but never winning a World Series title).

The Mason Strategy asks: As a small-conference school, would you rather make the NCAA Tournament every year but lose in the first round, or make the NCAA Tournament once every 10 years, but, say, get to the Sweet 16 before losing. Here's the question: Is a once-in-a-generation trip to the Sweet 16 worth more than an annual presence in the NCAA Tournament field.

(Wow, I need to copy/paste this into its own post for further discussion.)

Jon said...

True. Raf, Bilas and McDonough are the best college basketball announcing team by miles. It's too bad that they are limited in the games that they call and aren't given the big games to call.

That was a great foul by Henderson no matter how thuggish it was. Plus it should help Duke get knocked out of the ACC tourney in the first round giving them a first round 5-12 match up.

I hope George Mason's run doesn't limit the CAA to only one tournament team. That conference deserves at least 2 teams.

Seth Davis' shit eating grin is nothing compared to Ken Rosenthal's.

Why would Minaya want ARod? Wright and Reyes are solid on that side. Mets need to spend their money on pitching because they have none.

Jason said...

I would not, under any circumstances, do what George Mason is doing or refer to it as a "strategy." Last year, they were more than tournament worthy (and the fact that they didn't even make the CAA finals and still got in proves it). This year, as much as I love them, they don't belong.

$20 says someone will take them in your pool to go deep and they are shocked when the Patriots go out in the first round.

Jason said...

Now I've read your comment, Dan. I'm not sure I agree with you but it makes things a lot clearer.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Dan big difference between Duke's "thuggery" and what the Temple kid did a couple of years ago. Henderson was the best player on the floor for Duke yesterday the Temple kid was the 7th man at best and Cheney told him to go in there and hurt someone.

I fucking knew this was going to happen after that foul. I knew the first thing Shanoff would write would be Duke being a bunch of thugs. When you look at the foul it does seem intentional but I thought Henderson was turning to try and get the loose ball. I even talked to several friends of mine who are either neutral or hate Duke and they did not think it was intentional.

I agree with the analysts that are wondering whey Tyler was even in there in the first place. UNC was still jacking up 3s to try and run up the score. Beating Duke by 20 is not going to erase the last 11 years that Duke has dominted the Tar Heels.

Patriots64 said...

Moss to the Pats plus Thomas, Welker, Kyle Brady and Morris should put them as one of the favourites to win it all. 2 first round picks as well unless that is part of Moss deal.

@Chitown - Howe does Prior look? I drafted him late in a fantasy league on the weekend.

Jason said...

And again, they don't give out bids based on the number of teams in the conference (COULD THE ACC GET 8?!?). If you're worthy of being in, even if you're 9th in your conference, you're in.

The heroin sheik said...

Lasting milledge as the next bernie williams. Please kill me. If that kid goes to the yankees and anchors center for 10-15 yrs he will bring more shame on tiny Northside Christian in st pete florida. Wait they expelled me and they bought his presence in hs. A ringer his entire life. Right on george will love him. I can't wait til Mar 31 when the D-rays play the mets. I honestly think the rays can be the third place team in the AL east. I know we have no legit chance at winning it but is it bad as a fan to be happy with just being in the middle? It sure is better than being last if you ask me. We will get ours eventually if we don't fold. They are the only team in town to have never won it all but we are young.

That busch race was great to watch. My boy blaney even was respectable in a toyota.

You know the gators are getting in position for a 3 seed. Things seem to fall in place for gator teams that are eerily similar to years they have won the title.
Saw the UF womens golf team play at grand cypress in orlando the other day. That is a real nice course my friend works at.

Sorry for rambling on getting my hand rebroken in about an hour. Yay for opiates.

jhawkjjm said...

Sorry, Dan I'm calling BS on the "Kansas wouldn't have won if Durant was healthy". It's obvious that you did not watch the game and basing your opinion off of what was written about the game. And considering the story used by the major places (ESPN, CNN, CBS) was the AP story which is wrong. (And has Jayhawk nation pissed off because it minimizes the fact that KU won)

Kansas was already ahead by 6 when Durant got hurt around the 11 minute mark of the 2nd half. There was no 24-7 run at that point. That is what the AP has wrong. (And coincidentially, they contradict themselves at the end of the story with the correct information) To that point, Durant only had 3 points in the 2nd half...not exactly lighting it up as KU took over the game. Would Kansas have still won if Durant didn't roll his ankle? Who knows. But to say the comeback wouldn't have happened is just dumb.

That being said, the only locks for one seeds in my opinion are UCLA and Ohio State. I think the other 2 depend on the conference tourneys. Wisc, KU, Florida, UNC, and A&M are all right there.

Amazing Ben said...

Dan, have you seen Crashing the Dance yet? Luke Winn linked to it over at SI.com towards the end of last week... it's a bracketology program that allegedly predicts not only which teams are going to get into the dance, but where they're going to be seeded.

The guy who put it together claims his program is based on the prior tendencies of the selection committee when dealing with teams in similar situations. While I'm pretty skeptical that a computer program could effectively predict some of the bonehead moves the committe makes, it's an interesting read nonetheless:

http://www.crashingthedance.com/

CMFost said...

How about this as a 5-12 seed match up - George Mason VS Duke..

chitown italian said...

@ gainsville troy - no denny green here tough guy. pinella wore a path to the pitcher's mound. i heard the grounds crew discussing adding a second dirt path to the mound from the dugout in wrigley though.

@ pats 64 - did not see him all weekend but he goes today so check the mlb sites for his stats.

Bryan said...

"How about this as a 5-12 seed match up - George Mason VS Duke.."

Good...Seeing as Coach K always makes the sweet 16, I'll be more than happy to take Duke (not a Duke fan btw) while everyone else goes for their 'all hate, no logic' route and picks GM

Jon said...

Can't see Mason getting a 12 seed. How about a Duke-Winthrop first round match up?

CMFost said...

so not only does Ron Borges hate the patriots. See his article about A.Thomas in Sundays globe but he also steals other people material. Didn't Mike Barnicle get fired for doing the same thing. Except since this furthers the globes agenda he will keep is job. The globes agenda rips the Patriots glorify the Red Sox. That ownership stake in the Sox has really kept them objective.



check out the story on Borges

CMFost said...

oops sorry screwed up the link.




Try this link

Cycledan said...

Duke - NC foul

I was watching the Duke - NC game when the elbow to the nose occured. They showed the replay about 15 times. I think Billy Packer is an idiot for saying that it couldn't have been intentional.

My take is that he was frustrated at being beaten by NC for the 2nd time. He had turned his head right before the elbow so he knew an NC player was there. He did go up for a rebound but he decidedly swung his arm down hard. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't trying to break someone's nose, but he swung his arm down to give someone a shot.

Unlike Packer, I don't know what goes on in someone's head but there is easily enough evidence to say it very likely was intentional. That has to be punished in any event. There is no way for the NCAA or ACC to let that go unpunished. It would just set a terrible example.

It does diffuse things when the backups are put in the game. It is unoffically announcing the game is over. At Syracuse's last home game, they had a huge lead over arch rival Georgetown. Boeheim did take his players out. As much to honor the seniors as to defray any tensions but it kept the fans cheering and everything on a positive civil note.

The first thing Coach K did was get defensive. Why not open up with an apology first?

Todd Ching said...

No mention here of how much Mike Patrick sucks?

Easily the worst play-by-play guy in NCAA, as he too often pulls the Joe Buck in being overdramatic about certain situations. I hate it when play-by-play guys try to add too much 'color' into their acts. And Patrick is one of the worst at that.

Oh yeah, and don't know if the Duke hit on Psycho T was intentional, but it sure did look like it.

Boomhauertjs said...

$17 million for Northcutt? As any Browns fan will tell you, the Jags just paid $17 million for a punt returner. The guy never makes a clutch catch (see 2002 playoff game vs. Pittsburgh) and is often afraid of getting hit. I'm glad someone else besides the Browns is wasting money on this guy.

Geoff said...

"Here's what I mean by the "Mason Strategy": Why work your ass off over the course of the regular season when all you have to do is string together four wins in your conference tournament?"

Because if you slip up in one of those 4 games you're whole season is a waste? So you are condoning going out there and giving a half-asses effort for a season and then trying to turn it on for a conference tournament. Please.

It's not like a small school can go out every few years and spend a bunch on free agents and make a run at a championship. They need all the exposure they can get to attract recruits. It's not even remotely the same thing as what the Marlins do.

The thought doesn't deserve it's own post. It deserves to be removed.

Daddy Rosee said...

Anybody catch UFC this weekend, 43 year old Ramdy Couture became the heavyweight champ dominating Tim Sylvia.

"That guy is my hero"

Ryan said...

ok, I'm a UNC Student, I was at the game, and saw the DVR'd replays. If ANYONE would think it was an intentional shot, it would be me, right? Well, it wasn't intentional. The NCAA suspended him for a hard foul (not an intentional one), which he committed and shouldn't have at any point in the game, much less with 14s left. as Roy pointed out in his press conference, during the prior FTs that got Tyler to the line (he OR'd Bobby Frasor's miss) and Tyler's FTs (he missed both, and rebounded his own miss, and was fouled). During BOTH sets of FTs, Mike Copeland was at the scorer's table ready to check in for him, but there just wasn't a dead ball.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@cycledan

I could not believe when Billy Packer said that the foul was unintentional. I do not know were you live but Billy Packer does regional broadcasts of ACC games and is not a big Duke fan going back to not getting a scholarship to play at Duke when he played.

I think Len Elmore's comments are the dumbest ones I have heard or read. He said that Henderson needs to be suspended longer and should sit if Duke and UNC meet again in the ACC tourney.

K's first comments were not defensive the first thing he did was apologize for the whole situation but what is being reported by the anti-Duke media is that he is partially blaming Roy for having his best player out there with less than 15 seconds to go and up by 12.

Todd Ching said...

@Ryan,

I agree, after looking at it numerous times (all you have to do is turn on the TV, right?), I think it's safe to say Henderson wasn't trying to intentionally hurt Psycho T, but I do think he was trying to intentionally foul him hard.

Now we just have to hope that NC State can upset Duke in the first round of the ACC tourney. That'd be awesome.

Tortfeasor said...

Are you angling for a job at USA Today, or what? That's twice you've praised their new website design, first two times I've ever heard anybody praise them.

rafael said...

men's CBB..i'm just disappointed that Appalachian State is likely out now.

Check out Lunardi's bracketology. If you want to talk about matchups...the Midwest bracket with OSU as the 1-seed looks tailor made to have the Buckeyes out by the S16.

Juan Pablo Montoya won't make me a NASCAR fan...but he has made me a Juan Pablo Montoya fan. Seriously, this shocks me to some degree. Latino pride, sure...but I found myself LISTENING to the race over the RADIO while I drove yesterday.
Nascar? on the friggin' radio? (actually, i dont mind listening to any sport on the radio. I have a good visualization ability...Soccer and hockey, on the radio, are very intense, interestingly enough)

Seth said...

re: Duke - UNC. If the game is tied at that point everyone would be praising henderson for playing tough until the end, playing hard and not giving up the easy basket. It was not an intentional foul. And it is correct to ask why Tyler was still in the game. Not that he was going to be attacked but injuries to happen on the basketball court, why risk it. Also it was the last home game, does Roy not have love for the seniors (He probably does not because they are not his...).
Ryan thanks for being a VOR. And people in earlier comments, you realize Duke beat mason this year, right.

Troy said...

Is a once-in-a-generation trip to the Sweet 16 worth more than an annual presence in the NCAA Tournament field.

That's actually an interesting question, and one that can probably be answered only in dollars.

But your point about George Mason gets destroyed because they made the final four, not the sweet sixteen. And for the exposure, recruiting, and (I'm assuming) dollars, I have to believe a once-in-a-generation final four berth is better than several years of losing to a 2 seed in the first round.

And back to your sweet sixteen argument? Aren't sweet sixteen berths exactly what promoted Gonzaga from mid-major Cinderella to major player? And currently, isn't So Ill doing the same thing?

Troy said...

@chitown, well what would a cubs season be without a distater in the bullpen? Seriously, though--it's Spring Training. I have hard time drawing any conclusions about the season until at least the second inning on opening day.

DrDoom said...

completely off topic here but i was bored during a meeting and wrote this.

The Deadspin rap


Toghether we mourn the loss of peter king, he died in a tragic accident involving tony romo and annoiting oil.

The last speaker will be known as the future of the internet.
Deadspin please step up .

Deadpsin here to spit the truth
it don;t take no sleuth to see that espn is as old as ruth
its time for a change for the blog to rise
on these day after peter king dies
no more monday moring qb
deadspin and ksk is all for me

The enemy list may be long and the language used may be naughty
but were the first sight to tell you why hardaway never had an interview with mariotti
now listen as we break it down man by man through the wwl
the problems with each person we wil tell

sean salsbury where do i beign
do you only break out little sean when the vikings win
or is it for everday of the week monday right on through
and by the way we all know you said jew

stephen a thank god you are gone
now i will no longer be kept up till dawn
wondering whether coach k eats poodles
or how much you love cheese doodles.

dickie v
duke bees coach k is fucking me
duke sucks and everyone hates it so maybe you should reakize maybe
that everyone wants you to r-e-t-i-r-e baby.

deadspin and ksk
where comments run all day
where you can stay up all night
and on your wii have will leitch playing right
where we are here everyday no matter the wheather
and we’re always with leather


don;t think i forgot about you sexy rexy the sex cannon
i would rather have your stories than any pussy ass rich gannon
no dump off passes in this rap im going deep al day
and while i batting i better not be watched by carl monday

but before i go on i have to get to the sprts guy
no when you first started writing you were mad fly
but now u one cocky whiny bitching boston prick who we just want to die
did u see those comments that day bet they made you want to cry

I hope the sports gal has a good time with harold reynolds
he did hug her too hard so far as i am tolds
good god tahts will leitch music
now billy i;m done with you so you can get back on bradys dick

now last but certanitly not least
berman who is clearly the meast
the man who had been nice for 20 years
who one sentence can bring to tears
the man who loves tj
in a safe way
your rumblin stumblin fumblin grumblin
but ywml has your public rep tumblin

deadspin and ksk
where comments run all day
where you can stay up all night
and on your wii have will leitch playing right
where we are here everyday no matter the wheather
and we are always with leather

you may ask who is bringing you this news
and yes sean i am one of those “jews”
but who i am does not make a difference
i do not answer to a site that makes me wicne

i make it rain like pacman

Jeff said...

Nice call on So. Ill... can't even win their own conference. I could see two number ones coming from a tougher conference (this obviously depends on the year, but: Big 10, ACC, Big East, maybe Pac 10), but certainly not from the Mo Valley.

Brian in Oxford said...

Todd,

Didn't Mike Patrick once refuse to badmouth Leonard Little or something like that, saying the drunk driving wasn't what he was really about? Anyways, you notice how Tirico got the MNF gig and not Patrick.

The one-game suspension's not so wrong. If nothing else, it says, maybe you didn't do it on purpose, but see what CAN happen when all you're looking to do is commit the hard foul....you're responsible for your actions out there.

Anyone flip past the C-USA women's final last night? Was ANYONE there? I was watching the halftime show, and usually there's people behind the announcers at half court.....not wherever they were last night, though.

Hmmm....no love for arena football on the blog.
shhhh! :)

CMFost said...

Brian that would assume that anyone actually watched Arena Football.

ndyanksfan05 said...

David Wright's comments were very smart - look like a great guy and great teammate by saying he would give up his position for A-Rod but knowing that they would never put A-Rod at third if he was on the Mets. They just move A-Rod back to short and have the best left side of the infield in the game.

Jeter made the rigth decision holding his ground at short - he should be playing there. A-Rod is a superior talent - jeter is a smarter and scrappier player, running bases extremely well, working counts and getting on base a lot, playing solid defense (not extraordinary). He couldn't have transitioned to third base as easily as A-Rod, who has a lot more natural talent and could probably play any position on the field. And given all your griping about A-rods mental state and inability to handle pressure how do you think he would be doing at the most important position on the field on the biggest stage. Being a leader is not always about superficially sacrificing yourself for another player. Jeter's leadership is the way he plays, complete hustle and making smart decisions and supporting his teammates in everything they do on the field (he is the most active cheerleader on the bench for all his teammates). But he also wants to be the heart of the team, he wants the "ball" in the pressure situations, and he wants to play the most important position on the field because he knows he can win games in the big situations. MJ never wanted to be on the bench if he was tired or sick or there was someone who might be better at shooting free throws than him because he wanted the ball no matter what and thats what the greats all want.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I dont know this for a fact but i think henderson is automatically suspended for being ejected from a game for the type on intentional foul the refs called. So it wasn't the ACC that suspended him, it was basically the refs when they made the call to toss him from the game. It looked like he was trying to foul hansbrough hard but I dont think he tried to bust his nose up like that.

rafael said...

btw Dan, CFB ended months ago. Noone cares who won the title this past year. It's over.
So...the potshots at the B10? Like taking potshots at Gerald Ford.
Ancient History.

Jason said...

I think Jeter would have moved to 2nd if he had moved, NDYanks.

Jason said...

And for the curious: UMass is one of the last four out. They could certainly play themselves in with a strong A10 tournament.

Luke Bell said...

Re: Jeter - Or move him to center or left field.

And that Big 10 comparison is a joke. Griping about getting a 2-seed over a 1-seed is so not the same as getting a shot to play for the national championship. UW and OSU are both in the tournament regardless of what happens.

Wisconsin should already be a 2 seed, and Florida should have been in the national championship game. But the arguments are apples and oranges.

Todd Ching said...

Yeah, Jeter would've moved to 2B, since his poor range and mediocre arm would be more hidden there.

D-Wright's comments were awesome though. No way they'd get A-Rod considering the Mets have him and Reyes already, and the big contract of Beltran.

As for Milledge being Bernie, I'm not sure I like that comparison, as his bat speed and attitude are more comparable to a younger Sheffield. Hopefully he'll mature a lot though, as it seems the Mets have soured on him a little since last year.

ndyanksfan05 said...

i can see that - but then cano is either out or at third. I think they have the best possible infield right now as it is situated. Three all-stars(A-rod, Jeter and Cano) in positions that maximize the defensive capabilities of the infield. Jeter or Cano wouldnt be able to transition to a new position as easily as A-rod who is one of the best talents ever to play the game. A-rod turned out to be a very capable third baseman, very strong arm and a very good glove. He had a bad stretch last season where it seemed he got a little rattled, but I think that would have happened if he was playing shortstop as well considering he was up for a gold glove at third the year before.

Dan Mega said...

Shanoff, why is Baseball Prospectus a "must have"? For comedy purposes? They picked the White Sox to win less than 80 games. The last time they did that was in 2005, we all know what happened then (99 regular season wins, first team since the '27 Yanks to go wire to wire in first place, 11-1 postseason record, possibly the second best team in the last 25 years, etc).

I am disappointed in SIU's loss, but not too disappointed as they have had a great season. What got me ticked thought is that it was Creighton of all teams. Ugh!

Billy Packer is a moron. That was evident last year when all the mid-majors were beating up some of the big boys in the tourney.

ndyanksfan05 said...

does anyone know about whether or not it was an automatic suspension for henderson or if the ACC stepped in and suspended him after the fact?

Todd Ching said...

I'm pretty sure with the ejection for the flagrant that the ACC dictates a mandatory one-game suspension. I think it can be appealed/overturned though (not sure), which this will not be.

As far as Dan's comparison of skill set to Craig Smith, while I love Craig (wish he still were at BC), Hansbrough can play above the rim a lot better than Craig, and runs the court better in transition. They're both a bit undersized for 4s in the NBA, and both have great hands, but Hansbrough is a better athlete than Craig, where I think Craig is a better interior passer.

Also, no one ever would've called the Cookie Monster 'Psycho'.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@ndyanks

ACC rules state that once a player in ejected he is automatically suspended for the next game. The refs ruled that Henderson was trying to start a fight or it was a fight and then ejected him. The ACC cannot overrule it.

I do not think Duke will protest the suspension because the media will be beside themselves if they reviewed it and said it was an intentional foul and let him play against NC State.

I would much rather have the media call Duke a bunch of "thugs" until the next big story then have to deal with all the bullshit if the suspension got overturned and the talking heads at ESPN treated it like a catastrophic event.

pv845 said...

jhawkjim is right Dan. KU has completed the comeback and then lead by 6 or so when Durant got hurt. There is no telling who would have won, but Durant getting hurt was not the spark of the comeback.
Billy Packer is a moron. I wish they would leave him at home during the NCAA tourney. Him and Jim Nantz are too busy talking about how great they are and how they have seen everything to call a good game.
It appears that Joe Lunardi has gone nuts on his latest Bracket. FL up to 1?? they won on their home floor. TX moving up after losing to KS. You can stay the same, but you don't move up after a loss. I guess we will all see what really happens Sunday.
As for the Henderson foul, it was intentional to be a foul. The damage and placement may not have been and we will never know. The suspension is automatic from the NCAA and not the ACC. Any ejection in college sports from the refs carries an automatic 1 game suspension. That is in football, basketball or even lacrosse.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@pv

It maybe from the NCAA but in the ACC the commish's office cannot review and overturn the suspenstion. I believe that in the Big XII a team can appeal a suspension and the commish's office may overturn.

Brian in Oxford said...

So, what's the deal where Duke is considered evil and Yankees-like? I don't get that, since I've always thought UNC more to be the ones in the ivory towers who can do no wrong and get all the calls and stuff like that. I guess Dean Smith smiled more than Coach K does, yeah, but I always thought both programs were easy to hate....although I did like Duke on the way up about 15-20 years ago.

Of course, I'll have to go to Raleigh now, if I want any pudding in Carolina.

Jason said...

As a Mets fan, let me say I love Wright and Reyes too much to see ARod. I mean, yeah, it'd be great to have him on the team but I'd rather keep our infield in one piece...then again, Reyes at 2nd wouldn't be good too.

And Milledge needs to get traded. He's beyond a douche.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@brian in oxford

The hatred of Duke started when Dean left UNC. When Duke won the title in 2001 it became even easier to hate Duke because that is when the entire "Duke gets all the call" theory started. Billy Packer was talking about this the entire game and Lute Olsen said as much during the post-game interview. Never gave credit to Duke for being the better team but felt the officials gave Duke the title.

After that it became easy for people in the media to pile on because they now had a reason for Duke's success for the last 20 years it was all because of the refs and Duke getting all of the calls. Now when Duke wins a big game some media hack mentions that Duke got some beneficial calls from the refs.

It is also easier for people to hate Duke because they are a private school that is usually attended by more affluent kids who may think they are better than everyone. I think the reputation of the school does not help when people pile on the basketball team and Coach K.

Todd Ching said...

@Brian,

While I'm not a UNC fan, I certainly don't HATE them the same way as I hate Duke. There are a lot of reasons to hate Duke, and here are the best ones I can come up with:

1) They consistently are good, get the best recruits, and have built an empire out of basketball.

2) The University is a mostly white, preppy, private school who like any other private school, have kids from affluent backgrounds.

3) The way the media and ESPN (read: VITALE), absolutely slurp Duke and Coach K is nauseating. Also the overexposure of advertising (think Coach K Amex ads).

4) They've undoubtedly gotten their share of calls over the years. The "clock malfunction" against Clemson this year, the Sheldon Williams hack (non-call) against BC last year, Florida St. last year when the refs got suspended, the UNLV game (the one Duke won in the early 90s). Doug Gottlieb, said it best, "All teams get calls at home, Duke is the only team that gets calls on the road."

5) Their most prominent players have been fairly whiny over the years. Bobby Hurley and Laettner came across as spoiled (when not stepping on people), Redick with his stupid 3 point gang symbol, and now Paulus seems the heir apparent to that, as he is an All-American whiner. Coach K also can be a bit of a whiner as well.

But yeah, it's mostly the overexposure in the media, let's call it the White, private school factor, and the suspicious amount of beneficial calls in the past few years.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@Todd

Care to elaborate on the UNLV game from 1991 or because everyone thinks Duke can only win with the help of the refs you include this game?

There was only 1 call that can be considered in the '91 Duke/UNLV game and that is the charge that fouled Greg Anthony out with about 3 or 4 minutes to go. Even with Anthony out UNLV looked like they were going to win because they went up by 5 without about 3 to play. Hurley then nailed a 22 footer with little time on the shot clock and it was on from there.

This is what I remember from that game but if you have any evidence to back up the claim the Duke got calls against UNLV I would love to read them.

WuzUpG said...

I don't see how Doug Wilson, SJ Sharks GM, isn't even a mention on that Forbes list. He had two tremendous deals in two straight years in acquiring "Jumbo" Joe Thornton last year and Bill Guerin this year. Also, in the past, he got Teemu Selanne in another trade. Moreover, Doug has also drafted so well over the years that the Sharks are one of the youngest teams with a wealth of talent in the minors

ndyanksfan05 said...

I think the duke hatred can be reduced to the simple fact that they have been a dominant force in college basketball for almost 20 straight years. Any time a team gets that good they become a target. They also do it in a way that appears to be unfun and completely conservative. They aren't flashy, they just seem to get the job done year in and year out - no real 'feel-good stories' or over the top fun players. In their defense, they run a clean program, they usually play hard, clean basketball (i dont think the henderson foul was a cheney-esque situation where he was trying to hurt the guy) and coach k will go down as one of the greats without the bob knight flair or the dean smith charm.

Kurt said...

FutureLegendVinceYoung: Duke's so called dominance over UNC in the last 11 years means nothing, when both have won 1 championship. I'll take Uconn's two championships since '99 any day.

Todd: I think Duke's inability to recruit black players is precisely the reason why they have struggled of late. Sure they have Nelson and had Shelden, but a Ben Gordon would never go to Duke.

GuyInTheCorner said...

BREAKING NEWS:

Andy Katz reports that the North Carolina AD emailed him and told him that Tyler Hansbrough's nose is broken and that he has a tooth that might be broken. He also says that he is not sure if he will have to wear a mask at the ACC tourney that starts on Friday for them.

Brian in Oxford said...

Vitale slurps EVERYBODY, though. Unlike a Packer, who is more discerning in the balls he chooses.

I don't remember anything sticking out of the UNLV game, either. Of course, if I remember right, I was at Saturday night Mass on campus and went to the chapel basement to see the score afterwards. I assumed UNLV would be up by 20, so there'd be no reason to stay around to watch. But with it close, I definitely was glued until the end. (Back in 1991, cable wasn't in the dorms, and there was no CBS without cable in Hanover, NH.)

The measure of a great team isn't necessarily by how they win, but how amazing it is to see them lose. The '91 UNLV and '85 GTown teams were probably the best college teams I ever saw.

Anyways, I didn't sense at any point that Duke was being handed the game. Now, if you'd like to argue the refs' presence in the Kansas-UNC game in that final four, well, have at it.

Todd Ching said...

@FutureVince

To tell you the truth, I don't remember specifically any of the calls from the UNLV game, but I remember that's when my hatred started, and a lot of it was because I thought the refs gave Duke the game. It sounds like you remember the specifics of the game a lot better than I do, so I'm sorry I can't provide any more than an anecdotal story in regards to that game. So you can choose to ignore that part of my post if it'll help you sleep at night better, while dreaming of Coach K.

@Kurt,

I don't think it's the inability to recruit black players so much as it seems like all the White suburban kids dream of playing for Duke (Psycho T not included).

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@kurt

I was talking about Duke v. UNC head to head and not on the national level. I realize UConn has won 2 titles in the last 10 years and has had Duke's number in the Final Four. I have a feeling though that Jim Calhoun is going the way of Nolan Ricardson and UConn may facing some hard times the next couple of years.

I realize for some people they count the titles but when it comes to Duke v. UNC priority number one is beating the other school and if you win the title or go to the Final Four you can also rub that in the opposing schools face.

GuyInTheCorner said...

kurt-

As you are a UConn fan, you might not understand the Duke recruiting dynamic. As a Terp fan, I can tell you that Duke recruits white players above black players. Many black players would love to play for Duke, but Duke can get anybody and they choose the white guys with few exceptions. This year the black guy they went for was Nolan Smith of Oak Hill and they got him.

It is also kind of ironic that Nolan Smith's comparison player is Ben Gordon.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@todd

I just wanted to know if you remember. You make a comment like Duke got help from the refs against UNLV but do not back it up with anything. If you are going to make a statement like that at least provide something to back it up.

Last night I dreamt that I was an assistant for Coach K and we were cutting down the nets in Atlanta and yes I slept very well last night, thanks for your concern.

GuyInTheCorner said...

On the topic that is getting lost in the crossfire...

I watched the Wizards-Warriors game and, if you didn't see it, here's what happend.

There were 2.9 secs left on the clock with the Wiz down 2. Wiz ran Agent 0 off 3 screens and he got the ball headed straight for the basket. As he got there, he picked up his dribble, the buzzer sounded, Gil put up a shot, a whistle blew, and the shot missed, in that order. The Warriors thought the game was over and left the court.

Upon review, the whistle was slighty late but Gil was fouled with .1 secs left. The refs told Don Nelson that he was going to shoot 2 and then Nellie, not in a heat of the moment, but kind of in a progressive way, got T'ed up for arguing to give Gil the extra free throw.

Gil then shot the tech and made it. He then went to shoot the free throws from the foul and made the first. Don Nelson then called his last timeout. In the event that Gil missed the winning free throw there would be nothing he could say to his players that would help because the game would siply go to overtime. In the event that Gil did make the free throw to put the Wiz up 1, the timeout could have been used to advance the ball to half court in order to throw a lob that could result in a winning tip in for the Warriors.

He essentially called the timeout to try to ice Gil, instead of using it to possibly win the game. Then, in an even more interesting move, after Gil's made free throw the Warriors were down one with an imbounds play under their own basket. The Warriors, it looked like by Nellie's instructions, DIDN'T EVEN MOVE UP THE COURT TO TRY TO TIP THE BALL IN TO WIN THE GAME. The inbounder simply threw the ball down the court where it rolled out and then the Wiz inbounded and won the game.

Let's recap: Nellie got T'ed up to essentially lose the game, then to almost seal it he wasted his timeout, then to completely seal it he didn't send his players out for the last play.

Um, I'm not sure what you do about this if you are the Warriors but it's got to be something.

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

@todd ching

2) The University is a mostly white, preppy, private school who like any other private school, have kids from affluent backgrounds.

Better get your facts straight buddy. My sister goes to Duke and the first thing I noticed was how diverse the campus is. Duke being a "mostly white and preppy" school is a misconseption. Here's proof...

STUDENTS Enrollment (full-time) Fall 2005
Undergraduate 6,244
African-American 11%
Asian-American 14%
Hispanic/Latino 7%
Caucasian 56%
International 5%
Other/Unknown 7%

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/resources/quickfacts.html

jhawkjjm said...

Pyscho T? That has to be the absolute stupidest knickname ever. And no he didn't dream of playing for Duke. He dreamed of playing at KU with Roy. When Roy left so didn't he.

I don't like Duke and its because of the overexposure and favortism from ESPN and Vitale. But to say people hate Duke because its a white, preppy, private school?1?!! I feel sorry for someone who would think that way.

Edit: ESPN finally did correct the KU-Texas story on their site.

Troy (Gainesville, FL) said...

@ pv, Lunardi is not alone in having UF on the one-line. Hell, some people never had UF dropping down to a 2-seed at all. And as for Texas, I happen to believe they were ranked too low on his S-Curve to begin with. The game vs. Kansas, if anything, proved that they are going to be a ridiculously dangerous team in the tourney, and certainly deserving of a 3-4 seed (depending on the Big12 tourney).

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@jhawkjim

Duke has been on ESPN a lot the last 10 years but that is because ESPN/ABC shows all the ACC games and until this year Duke was usually the best team. Vitale is the only person at ESPN that I can think of who is a fan of Duke but Vitale is a fan of every team, player and coach. Listen to ESPN radio or read some of the columnists on the website and you will see that they despise Duke the same way that Dan does.

Todd Ching said...

@Rev,

My brother went to Duke too. So it's not like I've never been there either. You had a different perception than I did apparently, which is fine.

Also, 56% is a majority (they are mostly White, right?), 5x greater than the Black population there, 8x greater than the Latino population there.

I'd agree that the city (Durham) is diverse, but would be less inclined to agree that Duke is.

@FutureVince,

Even taking away the UNLV game, there are still 3 games where the refs blew a huge call resulting in Duke's win, in the past two years.

GuyInTheCorner said...

I thought I'd brake out this baby one more time... (this from something I wrote called "the 10 things I hate in sports" Duke was #2, in case you couldn't get figure it out, the yanks were #1)

Duke University Basketball
Again, there are things that you should know: the fact that nobody likes Duke Basketball is one of them. Duke fans will tell you that the reason everybody hates them is because they are always good. This is correct, but completely untrue. If you didn’t understand the previous sentence, you aren’t the only one. I don’t really understand it either. I guess it does have something to do with the fact that they are always good. But it’s a bunch of other things too. Like the Cameron Crazies. They have a certain quality about them. I like to call it the “I Hate That Quality”. Then there’s Coach K. I dislike the fact that they get all the top recruits every year but it’s still a great coaching job that they have a shot at the title. They also don’t win the championship very often (once in the last 15 years). We still hand over the reigns of the best basketball players in the world. We like to call it USA Basketball. How did that turn out? Oh, and by the way; don’t have a letter represent your name unless both of these two factors come into play: You are one of the 26 (numbers of letters in the alphabet) best ever at whatever it is you do and that letter actually makes the same sound as the beginning of your name. Neither of these applies to him. And he looks like a goblin.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@guy

Written like a true Twerps fan.

Brian in Oxford said...

So perhaps Bobby Knight should be anointed the real coach K? Oh wait, never mind....

Todd Ching said...

Wow, did you just call him a Twerps fan? Are you like five or something?

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@guy

Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams in 1985 here is the list of the schools that have won:

3-Duke ('91,'92,'01)
2-UConn ('99,'04)
2-UNC ('93,'05)
2-Kentucky ('96,'98)
1-Villanova ('85)
1-Louisville ('86)
1-Indiana ('87)
1-Kansas ('88)
1-Michigan ('89)
1-UNLV ('90)
1-Arkansas ('94)
1-UCLA ('95)
1-Arizona ('97)
1-Michigan St. ('00)
1-Maryland ('02)
1-Syracuse ('03)
1-Florida ('06)

Only four schools have won multiple times since '85. You are right though Duke has only won the title once since 1992 but what would your feelings be if they won it every year they were the favorites ('86,'99,'02) how much would you hate them if they had 6 titles in the last 20 years?

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@todd

Actually I am 7 but considering a lot of people who are over 18 call Duke and its fans Dookies are you really going to complain if someone is called a Twerp fan.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CMFost said...

This list is a joke. Forbes should stick to what they are good at and get out of talking about sports.

Forbes.com's Top GMs
1. Kevin McHale, Minnesota (NBA)
2. Jay Feaster, Tampa Bay (NHL)
3. Billy King, Philadelphia (NBA)
4. A.J. Smith, San Diego (NFL)
5. Lou Lamoriello, New Jersey (NHL)
6. Don Waddell, Atlanta (NHL)
7. Marty Hurney, Carolina (NFL)
8. Jerry Angelo, Chicago (NFL)
9. Bill Polian, Indianapolis (NFL)
10. John Paxson Chicago (NBA)
11. Geoff Petrie Sacramento (NBA)
12. Glen Sather New York (NHL)
13. Jerry Jones Dallas (NFL)
14. Pierre LaCroix, Colorado (NHL)
15. Joe Dumars, Detroit (NBA)
16. Carl Peterson, Kansas City (NFL)
17. Jim Rutherford, Carolina (NHL)
18. Dave Taylor, Los Angeles (NHL)
19. Rich McKay, Atlanta (NFL)
20. Scott Pioli, New England (NFL)

CMFost said...

New Coaches Poll is out
1. Ohio State (30) 27-3 774
2. Kansas (1) 27-4 731
3. UCLA 26-4 678
4. Wisconsin 27-4 675
5. Memphis 27-3 641
6. Florida 26-5 629
7. Texas A&M 25-5 594
8. North Carolina 25-6 557
9. Georgetown 23-6 502
10. Nevada 27-3 438
11. Pittsburgh 25-6 418
12. Washington State 24-6 413
13. Southern Illinois 27-6 355
14. Texas 22-8 347
15. Louisville 22-8 313
16. Notre Dame 23-6 303
17. Butler 27-5 283
18. Oregon 23-7 254
19. Marquette 23-8 192
20. Maryland 24-7 191
21. Duke 22-9 118
22. Winthrop 28-4 114
23. Brigham Young 23-7 83
24. Virginia 20-9 81
25. UNLV 25-6 58

Troy (Gainesville, FL) said...

Also, 56% is a majority (they are mostly White, right?)

Um, yeah, but in the context of a university, I think 56%, if that number is right, would hardly be characterized (especially pejoratively) as "mostly white." To me, those numbers seem surprisingly diverse for a private university like Duke. Or for any university, really. Then again, I was an English major, so I pretty much only had classes that were 90% white women, so maybe my perspective is off.

Zeke Fucks My Mom said...

Danimal,

First let me say that I have been a fan and reader for a lonnnnng time, I’m just now finding the courage to actually post. I am a mousy little man, kind of like Greg Paulus, I lack self esteem. Anyway, your blog invigorates me. It fills me with not only a chubby but it gave me enough courage to finally come out of the closet. No longer will I have to shove frozen carrots up my ass and dream about J.J. Redick, I can finally go out and find a real man to ravage me from the backside, it hurts so good.

I would also like to thank regulars like Big D, Brian in Oxford and of course CMFost for giving me this new found strength. Brian in Oxford, I rub one out to your pic every night before I go to bed. I love their witty comments and intellectual superiority. Part of my low self esteem comes from having dropped out of 5th grade, after my father abandoned us to become a carney. He always wanted to run the game where you throw the wiffle ball at bottles. So I had to drop out and become the “man” of the house because my mom failed as a hooker, she was a biter.

Daniel, please don’t stop giving us what I need. If this blog ever ceased to exist I’d be forced to hurt myself. My love for J.J. is only exceeded by my love for you. Help me Daniel, you’re my only hope. I have the biggest.chubby.ever. right now.

XOXOXOXOX
XOXOXOXOX

Sheldiz said...

@ guy:

I was at the Wizards/Warriors game and thank god something interesting finally happened. Up until the last 30 seconds, that was possibly one of the most boring sports events (and LAMEST crowds) i've ever been to/seen. Especially considering it was "Kids Day".

Todd Ching said...

That list from Forbes does suck. What context was it in? I mean, obviously it wasn't about winning, right?

How could 7 NHL GMs be better than Billy Beane or Terry Ryan?

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

@troy from gainesville...

couldn't have said it better myself. 56%, though technically the majority, is very low compared to most private unversities. trust me...i went to miami of ohio. diversity meant me going to a football or basketball game. sad but true.

Todd Ching said...

Fine, if I rescind the "mostly White" comment to "the perception is that the Cameron Crazies are mostly suburban White kids" would that satisfy all you guys?

I still haven't heard anyone counter the Duke gets calls argument...

And that being said, I'm an obvious hater, and there are some Nazi (read: Duke) apologists on the board, so what do the other people think on this issue?

Biebs said...

The Forbes survey may be the dumbest thing I've seen in a while. I think it's only based on
1. Teams previous win % vs. current win %
2. And salary used vs. average.

Basically McHale and Sather get bonuses because the Timberwolves and Rangers were terrible before they got there (Though, I don't remember the Rangers GM before Sather).

Either way, neither GM is in the to 50% on their sport let along top 10 in all sports.
Also, Jerry Jones is the GM for the Cowboys? I didn't even know that to be true, I was pretty sure Parcells was the GM before he left. If Jones is now, how could he be in the top 20.

And so on... and so on... I would argue that Pioli has to be considered the best GM in sports. I'm imprssed with what Billy Beane's done, but until Oakland goes to a WS (and I don't know how much of it is his fault, vs. players stepping up) there's no way to know.

Danielle said...

I agree with Todd. With Duke it is all about perception. The fans in the stands look to be white suburbanites. It appears that they get a lot of calls (The BC games have been great examples.) They tend to lose to teams who are legitimate heavy underdogs in the tournament many recent years, and their tend to be whiners on the team. Coach K being the worst offender on this. Whenever a call doesn't go his way he actually looks shocked that he didn't get it. Kind of like Peyton Manning, whom I equally hate, by the way.

CMFost said...

I do not think you can use the BC-Duke game as a good case for Duke always getting the calls. The next game UNC was getting the calls against BC. I think that was just ACC bias against the new kid on the block.

CMFost said...

Also Duke is going to get a top seed even if they lose in the 1st round of the ACC tourney. They are the Notre Dame of Basketball. They will always be ranked higher then they actually should be. That is why I think they are one and done in the Tourney

CMFost said...

Out of those 20 GM's I would say that Pioli and Lamorello have to be considered near the top. Not only have they won championships but there teams have be winner for long periods of time.

Dan Mega said...

biebs said: "I'm imprssed with what Billy Beane's done, but until Oakland goes to a WS (and I don't know how much of it is his fault, vs. players stepping up) there's no way to know. "

Its not the fault of his players, the coaches always get the most out of the players Beane picks up. Beane just doesn't get good enough players, whether it be through trading, free agency, or the minors.

Beane may be the most overrated GM in the history of professional sports in fact. Has any other GM received so much praise but has won *nothing* before? I guess he did come up with a ton of useless stats....

Todd Ching said...

Last year's BC/Duke game was the example (Sheldon Williams hack job on Tyrese Rice), also BC was getting to the free throw line way more than their opponents, and then in comes Duke, at Chestnut Hill, and got to the free throw line like 25 more times (the last 10 being end game situations, but still).

Not to mention the clock job against Clemson, and the FSU game last year where the reffing crew got suspended for giving a beneficial call to Duke.

Even though I root against Florida (thanks, Dan), and I have no love for UNC or Maryland, none of those teams get calls like Duke. You never hear people say, "oh man, Florida always gets helped by the refs," or "There have been so many times that Maryland has gotten bailed by the refs". It just happens with Duke.

CMFost said...



Did anyone see this story
anbout the Marine who was wounded in iraq trying out with the Padres.

rafael said...

@ revscott

lol As one of the very few latinos in oxford, I agree with you. Not a lot of diversity at Miami...but then, very few schools in Ohio have any kind of diversity. Though they are trying anyways.

In any case, the truth matters little when it comes to places like Duke. Perception is all that matters.

ben said...

@ Zeke

I can't believe you would say something like that about brian in oxford, I think him and his wife are cute.

GuyInTheCorner said...

Cmfost-
I saw it and it was great.

FLVY-
I was pointing out the joke it is that Duke has won 1 title in the last 15 seasons despite being a #1 seed 11 TIMES.

Look at that stat. Can you say chokefest?

Yet we still say Coach K is like the best coach ever. Really?

With the countless McDonald's All-American's (although I am tempted to go count them, and better yet how many of them are white) he gets every season how has he won 1 title in 15 years and isn't on the verge of being fired?

Torre is. Every season since Gonzo's single. He probobly should've been fired. That's a serious comparison. Top talent? Check. Previous titles? Check. Regular season winning? Check. Postseason losing despite being the favorite? DING DING DING.

And... Twerp fan?
I'll repeat Todd's words...
Whta are you like five or something?

CMFost said...

Can you say Las Vegas or Kansas City Penguins (or some new name)



Check it out

CMFost said...

Anyone else who is a Patriots excited about the Possibility of having Brady throwing to Randy Moss. I tell you I am, he will be the best receiver Brady has ever had to throw to.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

How much do you love Dean Smith guy? He had the greatest player ever and countless other McD's AA and he only won 2 titles. You never really heard about Dean's teams choking in the tourney. You do not think that when teams play Duke in the tourney they play a little harder so they will be the team that knocks Duke out?

Like I told Todd I am actually 7 when I call annoying Maryland fans Twerps, to me it is the same as Twerp fans and all other Duke haters calling the Blue Devils Dookies.

Sheldiz said...

huh... i've been a Terps fan for all of my 25 years and i actually think today is the first time i've heard the phrase "Twerps".

and yeah, i laughed a little.

Todd Ching said...

@FutureVince,

Come on man, we're on Shanoff's blog. Dean Smith is definitely not in the realm of Instant History.

So how does one be a Duke apologist and a Vince Young supporter at the same time? (Curious, not being accusatory).

Danielle said...

I may be wrong, because I do not follow ACC hoops, but I think it is not Duke haters that call Duke "Dookies." I think everyone calls Duke "Dookies," including Dick Vitale. Again, I could be wrong, but I don't think that is meant as derogatory by only Duke haters.

Danielle said...

@ CM

I am pumped about the idea that Moss could be on the Pats.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@Danielle
Sorry Danielle I should have been more specific. When Shanoff writes about Duke he refers to them as "Dookies" when Duke fans write about being a fan they use "Dukies"

@Todd
VY supporter because I live in Nashville and he has the city buzzing about football again after 2 shitty years. Have been a Duke fan all my life one of the things I inherited from my Dad.

When baseball season comes around we will be rooting for the same team. I hate the Yankees as much as I hate the Tar Heels.

GuyInTheCorner said...

Danielle-

You are correct.

It is not a bad thing.

Hence Dicke V's catch phrase...

"Are you serious?! It's the Dookies again!"

GuyInTheCorner said...

FLVY-

Being a Titan's fan, I can assume you only fulfill 1/3 of the EVIL SPORTS TRIFECTA as I like to call it.

Obviously that being Cowboys/Duke/Yankees

If anyone knows someone who is actually a fan of these three teams you should report them to the For Craps' Sake Police.

Danielle said...

@ Vince

Ok, I understand now, I wasn't thinking of the different spellings in print form.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

guy

As stated to Todd, I hate the Yankees.

CMFost said...

Guy - What if they are also a fan of Notre Dame Football? Should you just have them committed?

Todd Ching said...

I have heard a lot of haters use the term Dookies before (I've used it somewhere I'm sure). Twerps just caught me off guard since I'd never heard that one, and who the hell uses the word twerp anyway these days, right?

Sadly, BC fans aren't worthy of nicknames... [sigh].

For me, the Axis of the Sports World Evil are the Yankees, Duke, and Notre Dame. (Oh how I wish NDYanks fan were also a Duke fan!)

I think WEEI comes in a distant 4th.

Danielle said...

I too hate WEEI, except for Dale and Holley, but I CAN'T STOP LISTENING.

Todd Ching said...

As for the non-hate stuff, awesome to see that Jon Lester pitched today.

CMFost said...

Todd I agree with you about WEEI, I am so glad there is a half way decent alternative to them now with ESPN Radio being on in Boston. It use to suck when they had no competition. And I have to say I am surprised that Felger is good at the job. And the thing I like about his show he does not spend 90% of his time ball washing the Red Sox like WEEI

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

@Todd

As a fan of a school that is a newcomer to the ACC, Twerps is what I grew up with when someone was referring to Maryland. Plus Maryland never had much once Lefty was gone and until they brought Sweatman Gary.

CMFost said...

Danielle I agree with you also, Dale and Holley night be the only listenable show on WEEI.

Luke Bell said...

My college buddies and I used the term "Duke" in reference to going number 2. As in, "I'm going to be in the bathroom for a while, I have to take a serious duke."

It had nothing to do with the team, but I think it does apply :)

GuyInTheCorner said...

cmfost-

I think Notre Dame football is outside the axis of evil.

The easy explanation is that they aren't evil at all, just annoying.

the yankees/cowboys/duke are all actually evil

Todd Ching said...

Charlie Weis makes ND 'less' evil (they're Iran in the analogy), but was there anyone in College FB last year who rated higher on the "hate" index than Brady Quinn?

My hate index for college football last year was something like:

1) Brady Quinn
2) Pac-10 Replay Officials
3) Blue Field Turf
4) Brady Quinn
5) Tom "Benedict" O'Brien

GuyInTheCorner said...

Todd-

How can you hate the smurf turf?

That stuff is so frickin cool.

In fact, if my team were playing on turf, why wouldn't I want it to be freaky colors.

There would be no difference physically but it could be distracting mentally... to the other team.

Ionce heard a Boise St. player say that, because of practicing on it, you just get used to it.

So it could disrupt the other team, but not your own. Why haven't more teams done this?

Todd Ching said...

More on Lester, apparently scouts at the game clocked his fastball at 89, which is only a few MPH less than he was during midseason last year. That's pretty fantastic.

Can we call lock on comeback player of the year now? You know... except for Manny and his knees, of course...

Todd Ching said...

@Guy:

I once heard a Boise St. player say that, because of practicing on it, you just get used to it.

So it could disrupt the other team, but not your own. Why haven't more teams done this?


I think that's what they said in Soviet Russia too, Guy...

CMFost said...

Wow, Cowher leaves and suddenly the Steelers are turning into the Bengals


Cornerback Deshea Townsend and practice squad tackling dummy Raymond Burgess were cited with simple assault after an early Saturday brouhaha at Margarita Mama's in Pittsburgh.

ndyanksfan05 said...

see i think the evil teams are OSU, USC and the red sox ...OSU and USC because they cheat, and the red sox for obvious reasons.

Not a fan of duke, but also don't consider them evil

GuyInTheCorner said...

ndyanks-

No offense meant, although I can't imagine that none will be taken, but you root for the Yankees and Notre Dame.

Your values have to be at least somewhat messed up.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I can understand how it looks - but as i've stated, I can't help it. I grew up 45 minutes from the stadium watching Don Mattingly, Danny Tartible and Steve Sax...before the team was any good. And i went to ND so i can't not love them. I understand the hatred for the yankees (although the money thing then translate to about 5 other teams that just weren't as good as the yanks were at spending from 95-00, the red sox, dodgers, mets, etc.)

ND gets a lot of exposure but its not like they are paying players or have thugs on the team. They get love from the media due to a large fan base in terms of getting them into the BCS if they are a fringe team, but they also get a ton of negative media coverage as well. I don't understand what is 'evil' about ND. They run a completely clean program that doesn't do anything to win (they have incredibly high standards for their athletes). Rooting against them is one thing, but calling them evil is a little much.

Kevin said...

Yeah, Dan, I think that was exactly Mason's plan going into the season: Let's play like shit for the first four months, and then magically turn it on and become a thousand times better when it matters.

And why the hell wouldn't David Wright say he'd give up his spot for A-Rod? Let's see...A-Rod is getting traded largely because he "can't handle the pressure" in New York, so let's trade him to...New York! Brilliant! I'm sure that one's gonna happen...