Thursday, April 12, 2007

Thursday 04/12 A.M. Quickie:
NFL Draft, King Felix, Imus, Duke LAX, More

We're on the clock! I have the first overall pick (picking for the Raiders) in the 2007 Sports Blogger NFL Mock Draft. Obviously, I want your help. Calvin Johnson? JaMarcus Russell? (Brady Quinn? HE would say so.) Trade the pick? Be sure to weigh in (use the dedicated post below).

Matsuzaka vs. Ichiro: 3R, 8H, 7 IP for Matsuzaka, but the key stat was that he dominated Ichiro, who was 0-4 against him. Of course, both were eclipsed by King Felix, who allowed only a single hit and has snapped back into the form that made him a phenom two years ago. On a day where Dice-K was supposed to earn the honor, King Felix is today's Stud.

Does Johan Santana want out of Minnesota? If I was him, I would have turned down the reported 2Y/$18M extension, too. Consider that Barry Zito makes $18 million a year. Now, if Zito is worth $18 million a year, Santana could very well likely command $20 million a year on the open market. He's going to look very good in a Mets, Yankees, Red Sox or Cubs uniform. Sorry, Twins fans: That's the price you have to pay to have the best pitcher of his generation.

Wow, the Nats are bad. Epically bad. (As predicted here! What an awesome season for me to become a Nats fan.) They aren't just losing, but losing badly. As I said in that preview linked above, there is a huge can't-look-away factor when you consider that this has the prospects of being the worst baseball team of all time. Hey, it could be worse.

All-Time Gold Glove team voting update: Willie Mays leads all players in total votes. Ozzie Smith leads at SS. Johnny Bench leads at C. Greg Maddux leads at P.

The most intriguing position battle to watch? A New York-New York showdown at 1B between Keith Hernandez and Don Mattingly. "I'm" Keith Hernandez leads by a mere 350 votes, which should become a fierce proxy battle between Mets fans and Yankees fans to see which team truly owns the city now.

NFL Schedule: I can't possibly do an analysis justice. Always note-worthy: Pats-Colts, Favre's Farewell. I defer to PFT. Feel free to add your own scheduling intrigues in the Comments.

NFL Draft: As alluded to at the top, Brady Quinn insists he can be The Man. Here's the question: Is Quinn the next Peyton Manning (skilled college player who couldn't win the big one in college, but – after 10 years – finally can do it in the NFL?) or the next Rick Mirer (over-hyped Notre Dame QB who simply can't make it in the NFL)?

NBA Draft: Brandan Wright – in or out? He's a guaranteed Top 5 pick this year (3-5, probably closer to 3 than 5). Next year, he's probably... STILL 3-5 (given Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo turning pro ASAP). I'd come out now, even though he isn't ready. Then again, did people think Chris Bosh was ready? No, and now he's MVP-worthy.

(Meanwhile, is Greg Oden really contemplating returning to Ohio State? I think he's waiting until it "looks" better before declaring. How about Mike Conley? Now that Conley is projected as a Top 20 pick -- perhaps the top PG available – I think he'll go, too.)

Drew Bledsoe retires: Looking back on his career, would you say that he was worth that No. 1 overall draft pick? (What does it say that his most significant moment as a pro was getting injured and paving the way for Tom Brady's emergence?) CHFF has a must-read.

NBA: Pistons lock up East HCA with a win over Orlando, who they might play in the first round. TankWatch: The Celtics have the right idea; I'm not quite sure what the Sixers have been thinking this second half of the season. (Meanwhile, my god, the Wizards are reeling. It's a bad week for DC-area teams.)

NHL Playoffs: Canucks beat Stars in 4 OT. (Yes, but were you watching/awake when it happened? Didn't think so.)

Sports Media: SI knows who pays the bills. Zach Johnson won the Masters. So, naturally, the player featured on the cover of this week's SI is... Tiger Woods. (Psst: SI is in the business of selling magazines first. Tiger sells; Johnson doesn't. It's that simple. But, wow, that was pretty blatant.)

Imus cancelled on MSNBC: Upon further reflection throughout the day yesterday, I regret that I said yesterday morning that I'm not sure I would fire Imus, instead hedging that I simply couldn't understand why anyone would listen to him. I'm glad he was dropped by MSNBC, and I found NBC News' public scrutiny -- of itself -- to be admirable. (What did it: Public pressure? Internal pressure? Advertiser pressure? I think it's hard to single out one factor; it was everything.) I predict CBS will drop him, too. (And then he'll get picked up by someone else and continue to have a platform.)

Meanwhile, check out this post from Michael David Smith on AOL Fanhouse, catching Stuart Scott defending the use of the word "ho." What the hell is Scott thinking? Seriously. He's not just wrong, but why in the hell would you take that position publicly?

Duke LAX: Charges dropped. As someone who was out front on this when it first broke, ready to convict the kids, I'm absolutely ready to admit that I was very wrong (although if sports media didn't have knee-jerk conclusions, they wouldn't have conclusions).

I will continue to contend that these lacrosse guys are guilty of being douchebags -- for example, innocent or guilty, there was no need for the team to have some sort of "blue wall" of silence when cops were first asking questions -- but they have been cleared of raping that woman.

-- D.S.

106 comments:

Patriots64 said...

Did King Felix ever drop a ABomb on the Rex Sox last night, holy crap!!!

Is the Canucks game over yet? I fell asleep in the 3rd overtime!!

CMFost said...

It still continues to drive me nuts that the media especially ESPN continues to kill Imus and leave Cowherd alone when what Cowherd did is worse.

Troy said...

Wow, the Nats are bad. Epically bad. (As predicted everywhere!)

Fixed.

CMFost said...

Let's See if I am the Red Sox next season do I spend 13-16 million on Curt Schilling or 18-22 Million on Johan Santana. Man that is a tough one.

Patriots64 said...

Nats will lose 110 games!


Jays back in 1st in East, going to have to stay consistent to keep up with Yanks & Sawx and head to head have a winning record to have a legit chance at a playoff spot.

rafael said...

Disagree Dan. The key stat wasn't Ichiro's batting numbers. The Japanese media had every right to go nuts about this, but the American media should have recognized the pitchers duel that was about to happen.

So much for Imus cashing in on his new fame.

CmFost...ESPN will rag on Imus because Imus doesn't work for ESPN. Cowherd does.

Josh Hamilton homered again. Hard for me to watch Reds games from Virginia, but does anyone think he can beat Freel out at CF? Otherwise, he'll never get a lot of at bats.

The only reason Oden and Conley should come back is that they enjoy the college experience (and honestly, once its gone...its gone. So i can see why its a hard choice) The NBA brings the millions, but its no longer a game. Its business. Otherwise, they have nothing to prove or learn at the college level.

Troy said...

I doubt Stuart Scott was defending Imus in any way, but his statement (as reported in the Fanhouse, anyway) reeks of stupidity.

It's ok for rappers to use this language, but it's not ok for an old white guy to co-op that same language to try to make a (admittedly offensive) joke? I'm certain ESPN will bury the Stuart Scott comment as quickly as it can, but if it were a black athlete, public official, or person otherwise unassociated with ESPN, they would skewer him.

Wilder said...

Nothing like an "I was very wrong" followed by a tremendous hedge that is completely incorrect. Quoting the NYT: In the first weeks of his investigation, for example, Mr. Nifong told reporters he was certain that a rape had occurred and called the lacrosse players “hooligans” who were hiding behind a “wall of silence.”
In fact, three co-captains, including Mr. Evans, had cooperated fully with the police. Other team members canceled interviews on the advice of lawyers. “There was never a blue wall of silence,” Mr. Evans said Wednesday.

Furthermore, "knee-jerk" reaction sounds very much like "guilty until proven innocent to me" - is this what you are rationalizing so that you can "have a conclusion"? Sorry, but I don't agree with you whatsoever. Im not saying these kids didn't put themselves in a poor situation, or behave inappropriately, but I can't imagine the anger *I* would feel if I got the same treatment.

Alan said...

C'mon, the Duke LAX players are 'douchebags' ... They may have made poor choice in judgement, but they are INNOCENT. The real Massengill here is Nifong -- what an assclown. Dan, seriously, think about easing up on those boys just a bit... they already have had the Scarlet Letter applied for a year or more...

Todd said...

Stu's just trying to maintain his street cred despite the fact that he lives in a mansion in CT.

Brave Sir Robin said...

Yeah, those kids were real idiots for not going to the media declaring their innocence. That would have definitely improved *strike*their case*strike* ratings. What a jackassy thing to say Dan.

thirdstringjd said...

DS - How can you POSSIBLY support MSNBC on their decision to drop Imus from his TV show this morning?

After giving him the green light three days ago and telling him that he would be allowed to remain on the air until the end of the week because Thursday and Friday were the days that the biggest fund raiser of the year for anyone in NY Radio was going to be happening - they pull the rug out from under him on the morning his telethon starts?

What NBC did this morning was basically take hundreds of thousands of dollars of research and development money away from things like cancer, and more importantly SIDS (something as a parent I am sure you are well aware).

On Monday had they taken the show away I could almost support the decision - but don't tell the man that his telethon will go on as scheduled only to just throw him off the air the morning it starts.

Troy said...

Yes, the sports media loves the knee-jerk reactions. And yes, the Quickie has always haralded this approach. But when it comes to using Instant History to decide whether someone's a racist based solely on the complaint of the potential victim? Come on, Dan. Yes, we all assumed some of the same things when the charges came out, but now that we know more of what actually happened, I think everyone understands that Nifong is the real bad guy, an epic douchebag himself.

I liked the one player who expressed the lesson he learned as something like "if they can railroad us like that with no evidence, what do they do against people without our resources?" I only hope someone sends him a link to the Genarlow Wilson (remember him?) story to really bring it home and show him exactly what happens when the accused isn't rich and white.

And who knows, maybe that player goes to law school and fights the sort of douchebaggery in the Wilson and the Duke cases. Anyway, I think the Duke players are in Andy Dufresne territory: whatever crimes they did commit, they've paid for (and then some) over the last year.

Purdue Matt said...

The Duke kids are the victims in all this. It's not against the law to have a party with a stripper. Making false accusations is illegal however. Justice will be served and Nifong will be disbarred. I hope those Duke families sue the hell out of the state of North Carolina.

Brady Quinn is worse than Rick Mirer.

Mark said...

Wow Dan you're calling those kids "douchebags" for having a party just like millions of kids across the country? They just had over a year of their lives ruined when the fact was they were completely innocent. Thanks to Wilder there for the NYT citing. Get your head out of your ass, Dan.

Troy said...

*rapist* not racist. dammit imus story, please just go away and get out of my head!

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

Fans to freshmen: Stay in school
Sources say Oden, Conley and Dunbar's Cook will declare for the NBA draft.

By Mark Gokavi, Dayton Daily News

Staff Writer

Thursday, April 12, 2007

COLUMBUS — The crowd chanted "One more year" Wednesday night for Greg Oden and fellow Ohio State basketball freshmen Mike Conley Jr. and Daequan Cook.

It's more likely those Buckeyes were "one and done" in college.

Sources say all three likely will make themselves eligible for the NBA draft. Albert Powell's opinion is a "90 to 95 percent" chance the trio will ultimately decide to enter the draft.

Cook said that he is leaning toward staying in school, but he says he doesn't have all the information he wants yet.

Powell was an assistant on that group's AAU team (coached by Mike Conley Sr.), a member of Dunbar's coaching staff and close friend to all three families.

"If it's one," Powell said. "It's all of them."

Ohio State held a celebration complete with the band, the mayor, cheerleaders, a highlight video and 4,000 fans at the Schottenstein Center. Ohio State (35-4) was the Big Ten regular-season and tourney champions and NCAA runner-up to Florida.

It also may have been a farewell for three freshmen and AAU teammates who have had NBA dreams since grade school. Players can withdraw from the draft until June 18.

The players' families — including Conley Sr., now an NBA agent — plan to meet Sunday in Indianapolis. Ohio State coach Thad Matta hopes to talk with the players next week, armed with NBA information.

"If guys go, I'm going to be happy for them," said Matta, later adding: "Money's one thing. Memories are another. A lot of people would rather have great memories."

Patriots64 said...

Can bloggers be sued for slander etc? If so, Dan better watch what you print in the future!

Patriots64 said...

"Zack Greinke left the Royals Wednesday to attend the funerals of his grandparents in Florida.

Greinke's grandparents traveled to Kansas City for Greinke's start last week, but reportedly "died within hours of each other last Thursday and Friday." "I’m doing OK," Greinke said. "I’m worried about my mother, but she seems to be doing a little better than she was a few days ago." Greinke is expected to rejoin the team Friday in Baltimore."

This may not help his good start!!

Todd said...

I dunno, my brother went to Duke, lived next to some LAX players, and basically thought that the program was full of assholes. So while they obviously aren't guilty of rape, that doesn't automatically restore them as good upstanding citizens either. While rape in all probability did not occur, it seems like something must've happened there that would've caused the girls to claim that something more had happened. Probably just some drunken sexual harassment, perhaps trying to solicit sex, etc., which would still make them douchebags.

But again, I'll refer to what my brother, a Duke grad who lived near some LAX players said about the kids in the program.

Andy said...

Personally, I agree with Dan's assessment of the Duke LAX boys as douchebags. We all know LAX is a rich white man sport (and yes, I am white). Those guys didn't think anything could touch them. Finally, something did, and they all walled up and wouldn't cooperate. They were innocent from the start, yet wouldn't cooperate with police to prove their innocence. I personally think this thing got drug out for over a year because they didn't help the police prove their innocence. They are douchebags. If you're really that innocent, help the police prove that.

thistlewarrior said...

The Duke LAX team DID have a history a mile long of misconduct prior to the rape allegations and thus probably are douchebags. However, the case got blown way out of proportion in a hurry and everyone just assumed they were guilty; it practically became social/career suicide to anyone who questioned the validity of the charges/case. The entire fiasco was handled poorly by the university,the prosecutor and the media.

Todd said...

Johan isn't a free agent until after the '08 season I believe.

MLB Studs and Duds:

Studs:
1. Felix Hernandez
2. Ramon Ortiz
3. Craig Monroe
4. Michael Young

Duds:
1. The media on Matsuzaka v. Ichiro instead of Matsuzaka v. Felix
2. Oliver Perez
3. Kyle Farnsworth
4. ESPN Fantasy Baseball this year

I would hope no one puts Matsuzaka down as a dud. Because while he wasn't spectacular, he still pitched well enough to win most games. A QS of 7.0IP with 3ER is definitely not "dud" worthy.

And that really sucks for Greinke, who already suffered from severe anxiety.

verbal97 said...

I'd expect nothing less from you Andy. It's not up to suspects/defendants to prove innocence, it's up to police/prosecutors to prove guilt. As Wilder said (do you even read people's comments), they were told by lawyers not to say anything, which is an extremely intelligent approach. In all likelihood, the players on the team are douchebags, but not knowing them personally, I or any of you can't say so for certain. Hasn't this case proven that you can't judge a person on hearsay?!?!

Matt T said...

I feel a little bad for some of the Nationals already. But am glad to see my Braves beat up on them.

Andruw and Chipper homered both in the same game for the 56th time.

DrDoom said...

the nats are really bad and that hockey game last night is the only hockey game i can remember enjoying ever. Now i remmeber why i like playoff hockey. Also felix was incredible.

Andy said...

Lawyers are jackasses. All of them. And unfortunatle my brother-in-law is going to be one. Are you telling me that if you were accused of rape and cooperating would help prove your innocence, you wouldn't cooperate? It's common sense. Cooperate if you're innocent because cooperating is going to go a long way to help your case. At the very least, it helps your public image. If they had cooperated, the media would have shed a more positive light on them and they would have not been so negatively looked on.

Like I said, it's common sense.

chitown italian said...

But it's okay that Irvin said that Romo must have some black in him to run that way.

Kill Whitey but let the blacks say what they want. Anyone see a double standard? ESPN should've fired his ass just like Limbaugh.

Haven't heard what Scott said but I've always hated his ass anyway.

nati said...

For the record you can't sue a state for false charges being brought against you, or a state official for doing something while on his job. The only thing they can do is try to get Duke to pay the 9 million dollars in legal fees and that is unlikely because eventhough they were treated unfairly, it wasn't Duke's fault that they got in trouble. They are just pretty much screwed.

nati said...

I am guyinthecorner

Eric said...

yes, stayed up for all four OTs. What a great start to the playoffs. How will the Stars come back from that? Same story as 2003 against the Ducks. How does it feel to be on the losing end of two of the 6 longest playoff games ever? The Sedin bros are sick.

Troy said...

@nati

On Mike and Mike, they said they called lawyer friends who told them precedent in NC said the players could sue if the official was malicious. I'm not sure how accurate that is, or how easy that would be to prove, but there it is.

@andy, I would be personally offended, but I probably am a jackass, so maybe you're right about me (even if I'm still only lawyer-in-training). Still, "all of them"? Come on man, give me a break.

Todd said...

They can and probably will sue the state though for the misconduct from DA Nifong. He obstructed justice, withheld information, and committed all sorts of judicial misconduct while a state employee.

And Andy, saying all lawyers are jackasses is like me saying all ministers and priests are child molesters... while there are some, it's a gross generalization.

verbal97 said...

Shame on Stuart Scott. How can he defend hateful language if used by one group of people and admonish someone from a different group for using the same language? I really don't have any respect for him anymore.

Shame on Oprah for having the Rutgers women appearing on her show. Not only has this story been played to death, but now the self-indulgent queen of TV sees the need to make money on the story.

A galactic amount of shame on Al Sharpton. What a sensationalist?! I hope that he's happy that he got a guy fired by stirring up such a large fuss about a such a small issue. He may have done good in the past, but that doesn't give him a blank check for the present and the future. Also, he's said some dumb and inherently racist things toward white people with absolutely no repurcussions.

And an infinite amount of shame to NBC. First, to Steve Capus, NBC's news division president for booting Imus. Not only is he going back on his word from earlier in the week, he went on national television this morning and lied about the reasons why, saying that the advertisors had nothing to do with it. Come on Steve! Second, to Meredith Veira and Matt Lauer for having Al Sharpton on the show about Imus this morning and then segue into the Duke story without even a whisper about how Sharpton sensationizing and knee-jerking to a guilty verdict before knowledge of the evidence in said case.

I can't remember ever being so disappointed in our public media.

Brian in Oxford said...

So MSNBC has dropped Imus, and CBS's syndication deal may, too. The point is, he still works at WFAN in New York. Even if he's no longer widely distributed, he could still have his show there. It was amusing listening to ESPN's 1050 radio station in New York, every host was skewering Imus. Meanwhile, on the FAN, they just talked about sports all day.

News items, related to sports figures, ARE NOT SPORTS. This Imus thing, the Duke lacrosse scandal....they are NOT sports, and really not even sports-related. And yet "sports media" thinks we give a rat's ass.

Now, how about the Yankees missing Santana in Minnesota, while the Cleveland snow-out leaves King Felix lined up to face the Sox. Grrr....
(I'm kidding, Yanks fans!)

People forget this now about Bledsoe, but between he and Parcells coming in 1993, that was a new hope for the Patriots that has really lasted to the current day. That was a team you could walk up on day game and good seats for, the year before. They've been sold out ever since his first season. So he may not have cemented a true legacy, but he did win 2 AFC championships and was part of the foundation for what the Pats are now, so I think he *was* worth the first pick. (Wouldn't have happened with Rick Mirer, that's for sure.)

verbal97 said...

@troy and todd:

It's Andy...he doesn't feel like he's had a good day until he says something stupid and offends someone. Come on.

And public image is not the first thing I'd be worried about if my son was falsely accused of rape. My first priority would be to protect him legally. There was some cooperation at the beginning (as wilder also pointed out), but after it was clear that this was a witch hunt from an over-zealous DA up for re-election and the ridiculous shit-for-brains media (I'm serious, Edward Murrow is spinning in his grave), the players wisely stopped talking.

Saluki said...

That "knee jerk" reaction caused a group of kids to miss a significant amount of school (not to mention being ostracized by the media, peers, faculty, and administrators), a LAX season to be cancelled, and a coach to be run out of town. That seems the right thing to do to some college kids who got together, drank some beers, and hired a stripper. They should have been tarred and feathered or, better yet, drawn and quartered for such debauchery. Moreover, the team has no recourse. They cannot sue the state for the past harm caused. They cannot sue Nifong since he is an elected official. And they cannot sue the false accuser since she probably has little to no assets and likely would be found judgment proof. Maybe if it weren't for such knee jerk reactions this kids' (and their families') lives would not have been derailed by the "Guilty!" train.

Josh said...

This is the first time I have felt the need to comment, but it just kills me that MSNBC axed Imus on the day of his SIDS telethon. Who are they really punishing?

Andy said...

Easy solution to the Duke LAX situation: If you're a player on a big name school sports team, don't put yourself in a situation where problems can occur. Everyone on here is so quick to point out that it's all Nifong and the media's fault that the LAX players have "lost a year, lost money, etc" but they are the one's that put themselves in a compromising situation. They are the one's that made the decision to go to a party with strippers and get trashed. They are the one's that made the decision not to cooperate. They need to be held accountable for their actions too.

And who gives a rats ass about who they can and can't sue??? That's the problem with this country. Everyone thinks taht if something wrong happens to them, they can just sue someone and make it all better. NO! It doesn't work that way. Shit happens in life. You deal with it and move on. Quit blaming your problems on everyone else.

Ken Dynamo said...

yeah, Shanoff - you were way off with the duke kids. im sure theyre douchebags but they got royally screwed but tawana brawley II. and there was no blue wall of silence. that was completely made up by sharpton et al.

what i find most interesting about the case tho, is the whats going on in David Evans' bedroom. Or, at least, what went on there.

True story: i know evan's sister and we were hanging out in Georgetown with some of my and her friends. we end up back at Evans' parents house and i hook up with one of Evans' sisters' friends. we went into Dave's room for some privacy and it is there where I get 2 (two!) hand jobs. Whoops, sorry Dave!

Anyway, that is a true story. Believe it.

Todd said...

Again, from what I've heard even prior to the alleged incident, the Duke LAX coach should've been anyway, for running a pretty shady program and not having good discipline of the athletes. So I won't say he was unjustly fired in this. The program had a reputation of debauchery/douchebagginess, even among Duke students, so firing him for that, may have been warranted.

But on Imus, it's tough for a lot of us who are White or grew up in suburban neighborhoods to know why the term "nappy haired hos" would cause this kind of outrage. There's a decent explanation of it on Boston.com Here that explains it to some extent.

As far as Sharpton/Jesse Jackson, I feel like while they rarely turn down an opportunity to be heard, it's more that anytime that something like this happens, it's the White controlled media that turns to them, because they're prominent, generally well-spoken figures in the Black community. It's like anytime anything involving a racist statement in the media occurs, the media doesn't know who else to turn to.

But while I personally don't understand why this statement in particular was so offensive (Imus has said much worse things before I'm sure), I'm also not Black, and therefore can't fully understand it either (yea South Park, for teaching us this lesson). But clearly this was offensive to a lot of people, so it is a big deal in that regard.

Todd said...

The difference between Imus' comment and Cowherd's is that Imus potentially insulted/picked on Black women, while Cowherd shut down a blog for a few hours. Neither was good, but I do think the belittling of a people is worse than shutting down a blog for a few hours, right?

Also, while we love to pick on ESPN, in all fairness the other media outlets didn't pick on Cowherd either, right?

verbal97 said...

But Todd, Sharpton had Imus on his radio show before the Today show and NBC blew it out of proportion. My real question is why the hell does Al Shapton have a show. Can people really listen to this blowhard for that long? Well, I guess if people like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity can have an audience then so can Sharpton. But the take-home message I'm getting from all this is to just stop watching/listening to any news organization that decides that this is a major story.

And Todd, while I do agree with you that belittling an entire group of people for any reason is worse than shutting down a website for a day or two in general, we have to look at the details of both situations. The Imus thing was/is a White senior citizen who is a shockjock (which by definition he says stupid shit) saying something really dumb. The Cowherd thing (and can there a more apt name for him than Cowherd) was a sports media guy(which "reputable" news orgs like NBC don't pay attention to anyway) maliciously and pre-meditatedly going after the new kid on the block (a blog) for no other reason than to bully and cover up the fear of being taken over. It wouldn't surprise me if a higher-up told Cowherd to do that for that purpose. It's akin to Microsoft slapping around a growing mom and pop computer store.

Seth said...

Dan, that wall of silence was a myth. If you look at the facts, all players asked gave full cooperation. Hell every player on the team consented to give DNA samples. Only one who has constantly been silent about facts is Nifong.

Patriots64 said...

Mike Nifong will be suspended and maybe disbarred!

Big D said...

@ nati/guyinthecorner:

The families probably could go after Duke, or at least should be able to, for suspending the students (and expelling too, if I remember correctly). At the very least, they might have a case for libel/slander, or maybe defamation of character.

And if Nifong isn't disbarred over this, I will have lost the last shred of faith I have in America's Justice System.



By the way - Drew Bledsoe... Hall-Of-Famer. He's Top 10 in career yards & career TDs. He's got a ring. He was on 2 Super Bowl teams, one of which won it all (even if he never saw a snap). This should not even be up for argument, even if his last five seasons were painful to watch.

Todd said...

True Verbal, I do agree with what you're saying about Cowherd. I wasn't trying to say what he did wasn't bad, just that I think Imus' was worse, that's all. More in response to CMfost who has been saying otherwise.

I just try and avoid talk radio as a whole. It's something that should be dis-invented, like new coke or the tuck rule. I'm also fairly sure that listening to WEEI lowers one's IQ by at least a point per hour (minus Michael Holley)

Jimmi said...

I cannot believe you think its okay to drop Imus when you are a journalist and blogger, don't you think you should be defending Freedom of Speech?

Voltaire put it best
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

This country forgot what the 1st amendment is there for, there isn't a law that states you have to say nice things to everybody you know. Anybody should be allowed to say whatever they want.

Now with Snoop Dog coming out saying he wants Imus fired, boggles the mind considering his lyrics and his legal battles.

Sharpton and Jackson just need to be honest and say they want a double standard, they want to prevent white people from saying everything, but want to allow african americans the power to say anything they want.

Andy said...

Big D, I was thinking the same thing about Bledsoe. The guy was awesome when he played. I really think that the injury really did more damage than what we know. But I think he is a Hall of Famer. Brady wouldn't be as good as he his without learning somethings from Bledsoe. That says a lot right there.

Patriots64 said...

Read The Innocent Man from John Grisham Andy , great book!!

"When he left a small town in 1971 to pursue his dreams of major league glory, many thought he would be the next Mickey Mantle, the next great one from the state of Oklahoma. The story of Ron ending up on Death Row and almost being executed for a murder he did not commit was simply too good to pass up."

Ftrain said...

@Big D

One Word concerning Bledsoe as HOF:
NO

His career will be told in 2 chapters. Before and after the injury. While talented, he will be remembered as just a good QB.

@Jimmi
"Preventing white folks from saying everything"; kinda like how white folks have been preventing minorities from saying ANYTHING for over 200+ years (and still continuing to this day)

Todd said...

Freedom of Speech applies to the right to be able to say it, which no one is denying that Imus can say it, people are saying he should not have said it.

He can't be prosecuted for saying what he did, nor should he.

But losing his job is different. In any workplace, you can be fired for being insubordinate, right? You can be fired from any job for the things that you say, if they're egregious enough. (Not saying Imus' comments warrant getting fired, just that it's legally okay).

And the reason that Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have a platform, is that there is still a ton of inequality in this country, especially in urban areas.

Jimmi said...

@Ftrain...that is completely untrue, go listen to any radio station that plays Hip/hop rap music..97.1 here in NYC, all they do is throw around cracker, white trash, whitey, so forth and so on yet there is no outrage over that. Or watch any comedy show by Chris Rock, Chris Tucker, Patrice O'neal(the only one sticking up for Imus)..they use white slang and african american slang as well. Then look at hip hop music they use nappy headed, ho, bitch, and so forth and so on, Imus told a throw away joke that stunk that most comics make everyday, he is a comic with a comedy talk show. I am saying everybody should be allowed to say whatever they want.

Jimmi said...

@todd - he should be losing his right to earn a living in this country either, which Sharpton and Jackson are trying to do.

If you listen to the majority of african americans, not politicians or celebrities most of them are considering this to be ridiculous and were not even offended by it.

Jimmi said...

and also most african americans take Sharpton and Jackson as jokes and not the leaders of their race as they like to think they are.

Robin said...

MTV.com asked Snoop Dogg about Imus vs. rappers using "ho" in their lyrics. His response: "It's a completely different scenario....[Rappers] are not talking about collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about hos that's in the 'hood that ain't don't shit."

aforward said...

Santana denied that SI report of him turning down $18M/year.

http://www.startribune.com/509/story/1115219.html

verbal97 said...

using "ho" and "bitch" is degrading to all women no matter the situation the word is being used.

one thing I forgot to add about Sharpton's idiotic involvement is that Imus' comment is more sexist than racist.

Will (Minny via AZ) said...

Attitude runs rampant today...Ok, first, those kids from Duke had more than a year of thier lives ruined--how long does it take to earn your reputation back? Don't get me wrong, there will be an alum with a job waiting for them whenever they graduate.

Being in an "jock house" in college anyone that either didn't party or wasn't invited to a party hated us.

Twins need to do something fast by the end of this year or we are going to suck so bad for the next four years, not even a new stadium will bring people in...seriously look at the possible numbers here...there's a lot of zeros behind big numbers coming on checks to Morneau, Mauer, Santana, Liriano, Nathan...it goes on.

Good thing this LAX thing didn't happen at LSU...freakin Napoleonic Law states you ARE GUILTY until proven innocent...

Chris said...

Dan,

You have said some really idiotic things on this blog but calling the Duke lacrosse players "doucebags" has to take the cake. Do you know them? Of course not, all you know about them is that they had a party, were drinking, and had a stripper there (I'm sure they never had any parties like this at N'western. Yeah, right). Subsequently, they were falsely accused of rape, found INNOCENT (the North Carolina A.G's word), and racked up $3 Million in legal bills. They cooperated with the police (dna samples, etc...) and followed the counsel of their lawyers. This makes them "douchebags"? You know nothing about them and your comments are pathetic. I hope something like this never happens to Gabe or any of the sons of your friends when they go to college.

I would venture a guess that if they were Florida lacrosse (or soccer or whatever) players you would defend them from day 1. However, since they go to Duke, immediately they are guilty and "douchebags". They can never get back the year in school they lost, their tainted reputations, the lost lacrosse season, or the money their parents are shelling out in lawyer fees.

You should really think before you make a comment like the one this morning. But then, you wouldn't want to start doing something new now, would you?

Chris said...

Dan,

You have said some really idiotic things on this blog but calling the Duke lacrosse players "doucebags" has to take the cake. Do you know them? Of course not, all you know about them is that they had a party, were drinking, and had a stripper there (I'm sure they never had any parties like this at N'western. Yeah, right). Subsequently, they were falsely accused of rape, found INNOCENT (the North Carolina A.G's word), and racked up $3 Million in legal bills. They cooperated with the police (dna samples, etc...) and followed the counsel of their lawyers. This makes them "douchebags"? You know nothing about them and your comments are pathetic. I hope something like this never happens to Gabe or any of the sons of your friends when they go to college.

I would venture a guess that if they were Florida lacrosse (or soccer or whatever) players you would defend them from day 1. However, since they go to Duke, immediately they are guilty and "douchebags". They can never get back the year in school they lost, their tainted reputations, the lost lacrosse season, or the money their parents are shelling out in lawyer fees.

You should really think before you make a comment like the one this morning. But then, you wouldn't want to start doing something new now, would you?

Big D said...

Well, might as well touch off another firestorm...


jimmi, you nailed it - Volatire had it exactly right with that quote. You, I, andy, todd, dan, mark, troy, and every other citizen of a country that believes in Freedom of Speech has the right to say whatever the hell comes to mind, and not have to feel apologetic about it if someone takes offense.

Unfortunately, in today's society, "Freedom of Speech" has been turned into "Keep your mouth shut so you don't piss nobody off".

There are very few things you can say in a public forum anymore that won't get you labeled as a racist, sexist, ageist, or any other "-ist" - everyone takes offense to something in a conversation.

We've devolved into such a state now that people are afraid to truly speak their minds on most issues for fear of being singled out as having an independant thought in their brains.

I would wager that 40% or more of today's society is perfectly happy listening to the radio, watching the nightly news, and letting mass media determine their own personal views on everthing around them. America (and probably other countries as well, but I can only speak from what I've seen) has become lazy. We are no longer a society with a true free exchange of ideas and debates - we are now a society of "let's put a good looking, soft-spoken, talking head in front of us so we can all nod in agreement."

If I happen to have a personal political view, or an opinion of what is right and what is wrong, why should I buckle under the pressure to change my mind just because it is unpopular? Wasn't a free society governed by the people a pretty unpopular idea about... oh, 230 years ago?



And sadly, the entire argument I just laid out is exactly the reason why Imus was canned. Because MSNBC (and soon, I'm sure, CBS Radio) knows that millions...er, uh... thousands of people listen to Imus daily, they probably fear that his personnal opinions would influence others in the country and the world, and somehow there would arise a situation where the networks would get blamed for something bad happening. Happens all the time. Remember Steve Lyons? Another rather flippant, tongue-in-cheek comment that was probably not designed to "offend" anyone, and yet it cost him his job and probably his credibility within the industry for a couple of years.



Not to overstate the argument, but we are getting eerily close to "1984" territory here. I just hope the "Thought Police" cut me a little slack - even I rarely understand what's going on in my own brain.


/end threadjack (or incoherant rant, whichever you prefer)

Big D said...

Wow. I may have typed too much. Sorry 'bout that.

Hofnar said...

Jason Whitlock (who is much better than Shanoff) wrote a great column about the Imus situation. Everyone should take a moment to read it.

http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/_a/time-for-jackson-sharpton-to-step-down/20070411111509990001

Ferocious Bluebird said...

wrong Dan. They have been cleared of raping that "ho."

Al Sharpton and all the rest of the black racists were out to castrate the kids and even when evidence looked to be insurmountably in their favor. When the black leaders get pissed we all have to cringe and nod our heads in agreement. They are a disgrace to minorities everywhere. Now, you can't even man up and admit you were wrong. You still have to insult the lax players for something. Otherwise you might get labelled as something other than a diehard liberal self-loathing dipshit. Wake up, Dan. You think any of the people who condemn Imus or the lax players would ever do shit for you? You were owned by facts. Admit it and stop looking for a way to still condemn them. Stop worrying what black people in power think about you.

Todd said...

Normally don't like Whitlock, but that was a poignant article. Thanks Hofnar.

I still like Dan more though...

And South Park still nailed this debate the best.

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

South Park nails everything...that is why those guys are geniuses.

Just wait...people are going to start calling Jason Witlock an "Uncle Tom." It's ridiculous how idiotic people are.

Johnathan said...

Chris I agree Dan would have reacted 100% differently if the LAX thing happened at Florida instead of Duke and that to be honest is a shame

Andy said...

This place just seems to die every day around this time. Why??

Ken Dynamo said...

yo, guys, you can get mad at dan for presuming guilt with the laxers, but not for calling them douche bags.

DUKE + LAX + RICH = DOUCHE BAGS

thats just a fact.

ps. dear rutgers women's team: YOU LOST. you brought shame on the great state of new jersey by blowing it in the finals. you deserve worse names than nappy head hos (a terribily lame insult).

NEXT TIME WIN THE GAME, BITCHES.

Sean said...

Calling them douchebags and then saying, 'oh well, they have been cleared of raping that woman'.

BULLSHIT.

They have been cleared in a court of law, but it (still) seems that you think they're asses. Some form of retribution for this false accusation needs to happen asap, and who will it come from?

Hofnar said...

"DUKE + LAX + RICH = DOUCHE BAGS

thats just a fact."

One of the dumber things I have ever read in my life. But, I give you credit for not STEREOTYPING.

DanShanoff.com said...

Hey Chris: I totally accept your point, just like I appreciate the opinions across the spectrum that are posted here. Would I have reacted differently if they were Florida lax players? Probably not. Instant History is Instant History.

But keep in mind that there's something particularly douchebaggish about Duke lacrosse, as opposed to lacrosse players from another school.

For example: Note how no one is denying the original characterizations that they are -- while certainly not criminals -- notoriously the biggest jerks on campus.

Todd said...

Lots of first time commenters today, esp. from seemingly Duke-apologists. I wonder, is this not a topic that's on some Duke message board?

Anyway, no one is denying that the biggest asshole/douche in all of this is Nifong, the DA. But being innocent of committing a crime does not make these kids innocent of being douches either.

"Dochebaginess" cannot be proved in a court of law... well, unless you're that dude who is the father of Anna Nicole's baby... but I digress...

Look, the facts that we know are that there was a party where someone hired strippers, and a bunch of kids got trashed, and a rape did not occur. Did something else occur at the party that likely went awry (short of rape, but sleazy)? I'd say there's a pretty good chance of that, right?

The program also had a reputation (even in the Duke community) for having a lot of assholes in it.

So can we say for certain without knowing these kids that they are "douchebags", no. Can we deduce that there's a good chance that they are... yeah, I'd take that leap of faith.

Plus, it's still fun to hate on Duke, which is why this is such a big deal anyway, right?

Ken Dynamo said...

1) being labeled a douche bag isnt a big deal.

2) how many rich lax playing kids from private schools do you know? i know hundreds and nearly all are douche bags. i am also friends with many of them and call them douche bags when i see them. i also often get lumped in with them and get labeled a "douche bag" as well.

3) B.F.D.

maybe you have lax playing douche bag kids or something but get over it. that whole team was full of douche bags, i garuntee it.

Natsfan74 said...

Honestly, Dan, I am quite disappointed in you today. The apology to the Duke lax players couldn't have been more lame if you said you were sorry if you hurt their feelings. Then insulting the players on top of that?

The only difference between Duke and Northwestern is that Northwestern is in a better neighborhood. The school of rich white kids doesn't piss people off in a neighborhood of rich white kids. So the guy with a Northwestern and Harvard education looks down on a bunch of college kids because they acted like a bunch of rich white kids? Maybe you are taking your years of hating rich white kids at school out on these guys?

I will admit that not everything that happened that night was socially acceptable in any setting. But socially acceptable and criminal are two different things. Nifong used this case from the beginning to gain publicity. In the process, he permanantly scarred 3 kids, a coach, a team, a university, and a lot of families. But this case was much more heated and much more public because it was the rich white kids who did the bad things. For all I know, these kids could be d-bags or saints in real life, but instead of trying to make a living with a Duke education, they are going to enter the real world as "one of those Duke lax players".

I know that Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson and all of the other media whores who skewered these guys in the court of public opinion will never apologize. But I expected you to at least treat this with some dignity given that you screwed up in your initial statements.

Chris said...

Dan,

They may well be the biggest jerks on campus, I don't know because I didn't go to Duke and don't know anyone there currently. I guess it all depends on one's opinion. However, I have yet to hear them characterized as "the biggest jerks on campus" in any media outlet. I haven't heard that from the beginning of the entire story. If they were reported in that manner, I may have missed it.

I still don't believe you would used the same description of these kids if they went to Florida. If I'm wrong, then I apologize, but nothing that you've ever posted on here would lead me to believe otherwise.

I'm not a Duke apologist (I can't stand their basketball team) but I just try to look at the situation objectively. I have a son, and I couldn't imagine how I'd feel if he had to go through what these 3 young guys did. Especially the rush to judgment by an out of control D.A. and the media (which to your credit, you've admitted). They've already lost a great deal, calling them "douchebags" just seems like piling on. You've already taken your shots at them, continuing to do so on the day they are absolved of any wrongdoing, I'd expect more from you.

Natsfan74 said...

Interesting corollary here -- The Naval Academy football team has had 2 players charged with sex offenses in the past year. The QB was found not guilty of rape, but guilty of conduct unbecoming an officer, so he is probably getting kicked out of school and out of the Navy. Another player was guilty of sexual assault and strongly suspected of using a date rape drug on a different woman.

Navy football players are generally the biggest pricks at the Academy. But, it was a black on black crime and a white on white crime, so neither of these drew the interest of the Duke case.

Academy kids are generally the same "rich white kids" make-up of Duke and Northwestern and such. So these 2 players, who are on a team known for being pricks in the local community and in the university are both found guilty but Dan and the rest of the national media don't label them d-bags or besmirch their names with all their might?

Further evidence that the Duke Lax case was a race driven witch hunt that every media outlet in the country, both sports news and regular media, used to play upon the strings of sex, race, and privilige.

rafael said...

A counterargument to you Big D is that some people use the 1st amendment as a way to do nothing but attack other people.
Imus has every right to say what he said. Just as some people on this board would probably find it hilarious to call Blacks the N-word or to ridicule Japanese ball players by mocking them with "A-Bomb" jokes.
But then people have the right to turn their radios off, which will cost MSNBC money. Therefore, MSNBC has the right to fire Imus and save themselves some cash in the long run.
It's all about the 1st amendment. The right to say (and the right to not listen) that fueled the fire.

Close to '1984'? Sure, that's true. What with the "patriot" act and all that. But please, because someone tells White people to not degrade other races? Don't think so. (BTW, if you don't think Stuart Scott isn't being skewered by the Black community, you're crazy. For those that take their news from ESPN, that's another issue)

Patriots64 said...

Is the A-bomb joke equivalent to the "N" word or other racial slurs?

I really don't think the Yankee broadcasters would be using it if it was. There not saying Hiroshima or Nagasaki every homerun!!

Thoughts??

Todd said...

Well said Rafael, well said indeed...

Anyway, anyone have some tips for going to a game that's likely to get rained out?

I've got tickets for Fenway today and while I can't imagine they'll play, I still have to show up since the tix were a gift. Any advice for potentially waiting hours in the rain?

Natsfan74 said...

Ordinarily, I would say rain delays are a great chance to drink heavily. But, since beers at Fenway are too expensive -- go to Jillians or Boston Beer Works and drink heavily instead. Keep an eye on the tv in the bar, and if the game comes on, then go into the stadium. Otherwise... enjoy the beer and billiards.

CycleDan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CycleDan said...

While I was in college at an elite Ivy league college (well at least we told ourselves that it was), a rugby teammate was getting married and we hired two strippers at a bachelor party in a hotel room. It was pretty wild, the rooms got trashed and lucky we all didn't get arrested. Also lucky we paid in cash and gave a fake name and address. (Ok not lucky there.)

I am sure people looked at us as being assholes at times. However if one of the strippers accused us of rape and an overzealous DA decided to press charges, we could have been inexactly the same situation.

I root against Duke in basketball. So what? I hate to see politically motivated people like Nifong make a travesty of our judicial system. I am so relieved to see those three students exonerated. I am also happy to see Nifong face possible disbarment.

CycleDan said...

Is anyone else feeling the backlash about Imus's statements as well? Even my wife gets pissed off now when I call here a nappy-haired ho.

Christopher G said...

When I first read the LAX story, I was excited to see these douchebags burn like everybody else. It reminded me of the movie "Scent of a Woman."

But it was apparent about a month after this story broke that they were they didn't rape her. The DNA didn't match up. The accuser and her friend kept changing their stories every 48 hours. The families should have paid their legal bills right then and there. It was their own lawyers who probably exploited them and let this drag on for a year.

And yes, I agree that they are still douchebags.

Natsfan74 said...

I agree with those who think Drew Bledsoe will end up in the HoF. The guy picked up a struggling franchise and took it to the SB in 1996 (97) and put together a consistent winning team there, through a bunch of different coaches.

He didn't take any snaps in the winning SB, but they would have never gotten there without him. His performance against Pittsburgh got the Pats into the big game -- where Brady was able to make the comeback, cement his early legacy, and prove the Pats could release Drew. After the way Bledsoe played against Pittsburgh, the media at the time was speculating if he would start the SB or if Brady was on a short hook. But, Tom leads a game winning comeback, and the instant history buffs immediately write Bledsoe off as an asterisk on an otherwise great Patriots season.

Patriots64 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Patriots64 said...

Good article

CycleDan said...

Drew Bledsoe is not close to HOF material. Period. He had some good years. I would say that even in his best year, he was never better than the 4th or 5th best QB in the league.

Also I don't think his career is over. At the rates that QBs falter and get injured, he will be back as a backup to some team next season ala Vinny Testeverde.

Big D said...

@ Todd:

Best bet is to stay out of the Yawkey Way area until they announce that the game is actually going to be played. Try to get into a bar nearby (BBW & Jillian's are good ideas raf, and Game On, Copperfields, though both shit-holes, are markedly cheaper for beer). Keep an eye on the TV to see if the game's being played or not, then make your move to either the park or the next bar...

thirdstringjd said...

DS - How can you possibly write a piece about how Imus should be taken off the radio - or lose his advertisers, or support MSNBC for kicking him off the air...and then call the Duke LAX players douchebags?

Is calling someone a nappy haired ho worse than calling someone a douchebag?

Is it ok to call someone a douchebag because they're white?

Is it ok to call a Duke LAX player a douchebag because they happen to be a group of people (Duke student athletes) that the general population that reads this website does not care for?

Should you lose your blog for calling them douchebags?

No - because you have the right to call these kids from Duke who were run through the mill by a politically motivated District Attorney douchebags even though you don't know them.

Just like Imus had the right to call those girls nappy haired hos even though he doesn't know them.

Anyone who doesn't like it can go to a different blog I'm sure Ufford is writing a bukakke joke about Asian women as we speak. That's the power - to not pay attention, not to use politics to get someone banned for saying something you don't agree with.

By the way Imus raised what they are saying is about $1 million for SIDS in 5 hours today - imagine what that would have been had he been on TV like they told him he would be.

thirdstringjd said...

Ha! I should follow that up with - Matt Ufford I love your Asian women bukakke jokes so keep up the good work.

After reading what I just wrote it looked like I was taking a shot at him. Not the case at all love the KSK and With Leather.

nati said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
nati said...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/more
/04/10/bridgewater.57.ap/index.html

Discuss.

paulpuck22 said...

Dan surprise everybody and draft OL Joe Thomas, thats the raiders real biggest need

CMFost said...

CBS has fired Imus

Andy R said...

Brady Quinn and Rick Mirer are not even remotely comparable. Quinn played in a pro-style offense, Mirer in a modified option offense. Quinn has a big arm with occasional accuracy issues, Mirer had an accurate arm but couldn't throw deep.

But anyway...about that No. 1 pick...

Personally, Dan, I'd take CJ and not think twice about it. He's a flat-out, no-doubt sure thing unless he gets into trouble off the field, and from what I've heard, that's not gonna happen.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

I like the WWL’s new ombudswoman

eileen said...

The Duke guys ARE douchebags. Maybe not rapists, but rich, white, racist A-holes.

Did everyone forget that the night of the party two black girls called 911 because the guys at the lacrosse house were yelling "nigger" at them out the window? I knew way too many guys like that in college; preppy atheletes who thought that they were better than everyone else, and treated people like crap. Remember those guys in the RV in the Borat movie? Like them, only more entitled.

I don't feel sorry for them at all. They didn't do it, so I'm glad they were acquitted, but maybe now they won't go through the rest of their lives acting like big frickin jerks anymore.

Chris said...

Wow...at least if you're going to try to take the moral highground have the facts straight to back up your case.

There was no "blue wall" in this case. The facts of the investigation clearly bear out that the owners of the house cooperated fully with the investimation including giving full statements immediately when asked (and without a lawyer).

Dan, next time you have a strong opinion on something try backing it up with something other than ignorance. If you don't care to take that route....hey, I look forward to your next post where you reveal that Neil Armstrong is a schmuck becuase the moon landing was faked.

Terry said...

"Duke LAX: Charges dropped. As someone who was out front on this when it first broke, ready to convict the kids, I'm absolutely ready to admit that I was very wrong

"(although if sports media didn't have knee-jerk conclusions, they wouldn't have conclusions)."

The world runs so much smoother on innuendo and rumor rather than facts don't it?


"I will continue to contend that these lacrosse guys are guilty of being douchebags -- for example, innocent or guilty, there was no need for the team to have some sort of "blue wall" of silence when cops were first asking questions -- but they have been cleared of raping that woman."

The only douchbag here is YOU, and YOU make a fine example of one I might add. I could and should add Wipe to the description as well, one that can't read or comprehend the written or spoken word as well. Just another wanna be jock that can't handle the ball!

Tyler Hissey said...

There was no blue wall of silence. That was one of the many lies given to the media from corrupt prosecutor Mike Nifong and the morally bankrupt Durham authorities.

Your insight on the Duke Hoax is a disgrace because you clearly no nothing about the case. Your douchebag comments are not only untrue, but they are deplorable. If you were still working for ESPN, thank god you are not, you could have been fired for those comments.

You are quick to back the Rutgers women's team, who yes are victims of some indefensible comments from Don Imus, but have not even come close to enduring the harassment of members of the Duke lacrosse team. Three INNOCENT men could have went to prison for something that never happened, but you still want to call them douchebags. They are the victims of the largest case of prosecutorial misconduct in our nation's history. Why not focus on the corrupt prosecutor. Instead you suggest they accept an apology from Nifong who tried to ruin three innocent lives to advance his political agenda. Shame on you. You have some explaining to do regarding your comments.

RN-VC said...

Duke lacrosse --

"for example, innocent or guilty, there was no need for the team to have some sort of "blue wall" of silence when cops were first asking questions"

Pitiful -- if you don't know the facts why continue to bash these young men?? There was no 'blue wall' of silence. The three captains and residents at 610 N Buchanan went, uncounseled, and talked to Durham Police investigators for HOURS, they assisted in gathering items in the seach of their home, the willingly gave their DNA, they offered polygraph tests (DPD said they were unnecessary). Yes, the remainder of the team declined a 3/22 uncounseled discussion with the police -- was this a wise choice? Absolutely.

The only 'blue wall' was put up by the men in blue (Durham PD) and the local DA.

RN-VC said...

Andy -- re the Duke LAX

do you have children? Do you have a couple of million to spend defending them from false accusations that could land them in prison for 30 years? Could you have bailed them out w/ a $400K bond?

Pause... think about it.


Did you go to college? Any parties? I'd bet the majority of us .. could have found ourselves in a situation that could have ended like the LAX team found themselves in. Really, any large party would due -- if a false accuser were present.

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