Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Tuesday 11/20 A.M. Quickie:
Broncos, Vick, A-Rod, Love, Carr, More!

Today's Names to Know: Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, Alex Rodriguez, Matt Holliday, Jimmy Rollins, Mariano Rivera, Dwight Howard, Kevin Love, Kyle Singler, Lloyd Carr, Brian Kelly and More!

MNF: Broncos use big plays to beat the Titans and re-enter the playoff picture in the AFC West by moving into a tie for first place. Denver scored at least 4 TDs of at least 40 yards. Jay Cutler was 16/21 for 200 yards and 2 TDs, in one of his best performances as a pro. Vince Young passed for 305 yards, but threw 2 picks to go with a single TD.

NFL: Mike Vick wants to go to jail early. Reports seem to indicate confusion as to why he would do it, but it makes sense: He's going anyway, so he might as well start now. Every month he can get out earlier is one more month he can attempt to rehab his NFL career. (Just a few months after the climax of his indictment, it already doesn't seem like a particularly crazy notion, does it?)

MLB Awards Season: A-Rod wins AL MVP. This is hardly a surprise.

Now, the NL MVP is a different story. Heading into the end of the season, Jimmy Rollins was edging Matt Holliday. Then: Game 163, when Holliday provided what was arguably the signature moment of the regular season, a game-winning (non-) slide, right into (or around) home plate, completing the greatest late-season run in baseball history. If it is possible for a single play in the final play of the season to be the difference in an MVP race, this would be that moment. I'm not sure this situation has gotten the appreciation it deserves.

MLB Hot Stove: Mariano Rivera will go back to the Yankees (3Y/$45M), giving New York yet another experienced piece with which to bring along the young core.

More: World Series MVP Mike Lowell is going to stay with the Red Sox; we'll never truly know if his stats this season were goosed by the lineup around him or because he is that good. That said, he WAS that clutch in the World Series, and that bit of performance undoubtedly led to the new deal he's about to get from the team.

Strat-O-Matic '86 Update: Jody Davis hit a 3-run HR in the bottom of the 8th to lead my Cubs over the rival Cards at Wrigley Field, bringing me one game from .500. A little-known pitcher named Greg Maddux got his first win of the season, in relief, and Lee Smith racked up his 5th save in 5 Cubs wins.

NBA Last Night: Amazingly, the Magic are quickly eclipsing the Celtics as THE team of the first month of the season. First, a win over Boston; now, becoming the first team to notch 10 wins, with yet another quality win over the Hornets, who themselves were 9-2 heading into the game. Dwight Howard (NBA Player of the Month?) had 24 and 15 in what continues to be a break-out, 1st-team-all-NBA season for him.

CBB: UCLA is really good. After making UCLA my preseason pick to win the national title (a position I haven't changed), I have a vested interest in continuing to pimp them all season long (beats me pimping Florida hoops, I'm sure many of you are muttering).

After watching UCLA dismantle Maryland: Wow, the Bruins are good. Frosh post man Kevin Love (18 points, 16 rebounds) is a stud. The team is athletic, fast and – as usual – plays fantastic defense.

If the only thing stopping them from winning national titles the last two years was Florida, there's nothing stopping them this season. (They play Michigan State tonight in the CBE final, in a "quality" game for both teams.)

More Freshman-Watching: Add Duke's Kyle Singler to the growing list. Singler led the Blue Devils with 21 points (9/14 FG, 2/3 3-pt) and 12 rebounds. Has there ever been a season with such a deep freshman class of talent?

Next year's freshmen class: Li'l Romeo, boy-rapper and son of Percy "Master P" Miller confirmed he is going to play at USC. Or, at least, sit on the bench until he pouts and quits the team. Whichever comes first.

CFB: Is Michigan one of the Top 5 coaching jobs in college football? I said a lot of things yesterday about Lloyd Carr and Les Miles, but declaring Michigan as NOT in the Top 5 (anymore) got more response than anything. (I should have clarified and said that I thought it was as high as No. 6, but why undercut a perfectly good piece of inflammatory rhetoric?)

Anyway, I appreciate all the reasons for – and Michigan certainly USED to be a Top 5 coaching job. But I just think that if you had your choice, you would pick USC, Texas, Florida, Ohio State and even LSU ahead of Michigan, if your goal was to have the resources to compete for national titles. (Now, Michigan annually has an easier path to the national-title game than LSU, but LSU gets better recruits and gets the SEC's "degree-of-difficulty" bump in perception.)

It's going to be interesting to see who they get, because the timing of Lloyd Carr's announcement really screws up the shot that Michigan has at landing Les Miles. If they wait until January, they lose valuable recruiting time; if they get someone else in December, they miss out on their most ideal "Michigan man."

I will renew my own personal endorsement: Brian Kelly of Cincinnati, who has done a great job in his first year at Cincy, coached in-state in Michigan (Central), won two national titles at Grand Valley State, will have no interest in ever leaving to go anywhere else and runs a rare combo of effective spread offense and buttoned-up D. Michigan fans worried Kelly is a job-jumper? So was Urban Meyer. Not only do I think Kelly is the right pick, but I think he WILL be the pick. Now that the Quickie Curse has been appropriately applied, we can move on...

(Although the second-most popular email sentiment I got was: What's wrong with Rich Rodriguez? My common response was this: The spread offense in the Big Ten, run by a dual-threat QB, would be hugely successful. Look at the player that had the most success against Ohio State in the last three seasons: Illinois' Juice Williams, who torched OSU for 4 TDs passing and a quarter's worth of clock-killing first downs through the run. Why everyone in the league wouldn't want to imitate that immediately, I have no idea.)

Les Miles broke down a little yesterday while talking about Michigan... or was he talking about this LSU team that is about to take him to a national championship? Talk about mixed signals... Miles made one good point when he said everyone should just focus on LSU's next opponent, but unless he's willing to say "I'm in at LSU" or "I'm in at Michigan," the questions will keep coming. He has all the power in the world to make the questions stop. I don't know whether I respect him or not for the way he is handling it; he's not denying his interest, per se, but he's not exactly acknowledging it either.

Coach of the Year: There's one week to go in the first stage of voting – narrowing the field to a Top 25. There has been a huge surprise surge in the last 7 days, and there is a new leader. Go to coachoftheyear.com to check it out, and while you're there, don't forget to check out my exclusive blog, in partnership with the Liberty Mutual Coach of the Year Award. And don't forget to leave your own analysis in the Comments of the LMCOY race this season.

-- D.S.

186 comments:

Mark said...

I'm not sure that Holliday's game 163 is as significant as you make it out to be. I would still probably choose him over Rollins but it should come into play that Rollins and the Phillies didn't need an extra game to qualify for the postseason.

Natsfan74 said...

I think Miles is playing it about as well as he can right now. If he says he is interested, he becomes more of a distraction, and hurts his current team's drive for a championship. If he says he's not interested and then takes the job, he ends up looking like Nick Saban. If he says "let's focus on winning our next 3 games", then he is genuine and doesn't come across as a d-bag at any point in the process.

nooch said...

im in the philly area, and I got to watch rollins...that f#$%er was the catalyst for most of their wins, and definitely the wins down the stretch. He did do many things to get them winning, you could feel the rest of the team feeding off of him...THAT is an MVP.

Matt T said...

Like I said when you brought up game 163 regarding the Cy Young. Each game is a regular season game, the award is for the body of work over the season, not the last game. I don't think you can go wrong either way though.

Good to see Coach Richt in at #5. That's my choice, I'm way biased, but the way he's turned the team around midseason is directly traced to his coaching.

Sparty said...

even as a michigan hater, i do not understand how you can say that they do not have good enough resources as Ohio State? they are recruiting the same amount of talent from the same talent pool. the difference between the two has been Tressel out coaching Carr. Explain yourself Shanoff.

bkelly126 said...

can we take the Coach of the Year voting seriously when Skip Holtz is #2 or am I missing something? This is the fatal flaw in online polls. Croom should be SEC coach of the year, but nationally I'd give it to Mangino.

@nooch
can't you make that same argument about Holliday? his surge is directly tied to their record run.

Edmond said...

Jay Cutler kinda sucks now, but my dad thinks he'll be good someday.

Sparty said...

We have yet to see JaMarcus Russell play in an NFL game so he cannot be included in discussion, but Jay Cutler's arm is ridiculous. I haven't seen someone throw downfield with that kind of velocity and depth since a younger Elway. By far the best active ARM in the league.

Tunsney said...

Tavaris Jackson has an absolute cannon for an arm as well. It is just too bad he reads at a third grade level. He is not smart enough to be an NFL quarterback yet. He throws too hard on short passes and not enough arc on the long ones.

I am looking forward to seeing Jamarcus play as well.

Sparty said...

and of course we learned again last night that you can put anybody in the Denver backfield and be successful.

Sparty said...

we have a great matchup tonight at 10pm, or based upon early rankings it would appear to be. Michigan State vs UCLA. A couple pre-season All Americans on display. Should be a fun game to watch.

Josh said...

There is no way that Brian Kelly is going to be the next UofM football coach. The details are blurry, but he was basically 'invited' to not return to CMU last year after openly courting the Michigan State job. Once MSU chose Dantonio over Kelly, Kelly took Dantonio's job @ Cincinnati. Everyone at the University of Michigan is too full of themselves (and down on the Spartans) to take MSU's sloppy 2nds.

If anyone remembers the full story of how Kelly left Central Michigan and ended up at Cinci - I would love to hear it. (Thanks.)

BrewThru said...

The moment doesn't need to get any more credit because Holliday didn't even touch the freaking plate! That would be like celebrating a called homerun when all replays showed it didn't make it over.

DanShanoff.com said...

Hasn't stopped us from mythologizing Babe Ruth's called shot. Holliday was called safe -- the play won the game. You can gripe the call was wrong, but you have to go with the reality you have, not the reality you want (to paraphrase a certain former Secretary of Defense, who I normally wouldn't use to bolster any arguments).

wolverine425 said...

Michigan, again, is far ahead of Florida as a top spot to coach. It's all about history and tradition Dan.

Sparty said...

you are comparing the play at the plate to Babe Ruth's alleged called shot? how does that work?

jhawkjjm said...

In terms of MVP races, it would mean more for Holliday to have driven in the winning run rather than just score it. That won't be the defining moment of the MVP race. As a good example: extra innings of game 5 of the 04 LCS between Boston and the Yankees. Everyone knows Ortiz drove it in, who scored it?

BrewThru said...

I think it should be remembered along the lines of the Tuck Game, where the legitimacy of the call overshadows the outcome on the field. Also, the reality is that he was lucky because it was quite possibly the worst slide in the history of baseball. MVP's don't land face first. Besides, Ruth's homerun was no doubt a homerun. The question was wether he pointed or not, which had no outcome on the game.

Tee said...

Your summary makes it sound like Vince had a questionable game with his 2 picks and only 1 TD. His WR's must have dropped 10 passes that hit their hands or in Bo Scaife's case, his facemask. The Titans need WR's and Albert Haynesworth.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

BrewThru said...
I think it should be remembered along the lines of the Tuck Game, where the legitimacy of the call overshadows the outcome on the field.

How many times do we have to go over that the Tuck Rule was CORRECTLY interpretated and the decision to overrule the fumble was correct? Seriously? Not only that, they rule is still in place. Just because it was a little-known, rarely used rule, doesn't mean it wasn't CORRECT!

Clay said...

I don't understand why you did your MNF game summary like that...Did you watch the game? Titans receivers dropped at least 8 passes (two definite TDs), Bo Scaife had a twenty yard catch ruled incomplete because the ref refused to review it, and Eric Moulds let himself be out-muscled on one of those picks...VY played a hell of a game, and would be the talk of the league this morning if the Titans receivers weren't so god awful...He still got 379 total yards.

bkelly126 said...
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patrick said...

Reposted from last night cause I'm still confused...

Dan, regarding your BlogPoll rankings from the Deadspin article...

How the hell can you have Arizona State at 14? That and below Oklahoma who lost to not only Texas Tech but Colorado (who ASU beat)? Oh, Oklahoma's loss isn't that bad since they lost their starting QB? Well so did Oregon (who with Dixon was one of the best in the country and the only team ASU has lost to).

But yeah, Florida with a win over FAU really deserved that jump and Texas definitely belongs in the top 10.

Amazing Dan, amazing.

It's also good to know that Tennessee who gets lucky against Vandy doesn't drop. Classic.

marcomarco said...

I will renew my own personal endorsement: Brian Kelly

What about Will Leitch? Surely he can handle the job, being a deity and all.

Natsfan74 said...

Another young QB with a great arm is Jason Campbell in Washington. We are only now starting to see what he is capable of when the 'Skins open up the offense a bit. His interception at the end ruined an otherwise great game.

Michigan is a top 5 school for a coach. If Michigan and Florida both come open this year (I know it won't happen -- but work with me here), Michigan will be an easier program to fill (except UF overpays all of its coaches). Michigan has a lot more history, tradition, and rivalry. Plus, the new UF coach has too many other good in-state schools competing for the best talent.

Your assessment of the Big 10 being an easier path to a championship is so bogus as well. Yes, the B10 is down a bit this year. Last year, the B10 finished with 3 top 10 teams and beat 2 SEC teams in Bowl Games. There are some good teams and good programs in the SEC, but it is not year in and year out the toughest conference and the "pollsters bump" is a temporary that that will shift with the tide over the next few years. Next year, the pre-season top 10 will include Ohio State, Illinois, Wisconsin, and probably Michigan (depending on who takes the job). Those teams are all under-classmen heavy (with the exception of UM) and will return their teams relatively intact.

BrewThru said...

Mark - using legitimacy was wrong on my part. My point was that one play is what people remember, whether they think it is right or wrong, which overshadowed the rest of the game.

bkelly126 said...

I think the Titans are a playoff team this year, but are maybe a year or 2 away from being serious contenders. they need WRs, lendale to hold onto the damn ball, and to keep young upright

and why the hell couldn't the refs have reviewed that Scaife play before halftime? the MNF crew gave 3 good looks

Mark said...

Yeah I get what you're saying, brewthru.

The officials absolutely should have reveiwed the Scaife catch before halftime. That was definitely a catch.

I thought it was great to see Shanahan get screwed by pulling the bullshit timeout before Bironas missed the 56-yearder and then came back to make the one that counted.

Boomhauertjs said...

How about Derek Anderson in the conversation for strongest arm?

jhawkjjm said...

Supposedly Brody Croyle has a strong arm, but I can't tell you for sure because Herm won't let him throw.

GuyInTheCorner said...

STUDS
1. Dwight Howard - 10/14 FG, 15 REB, 2 AST, 2 BLK, 24 PTS
2. Raymond Felton - 7/12 FG, 1/2 3PT, 9/10 FT, 2 REB, 10 AST, 2 STL, 24 PTS
3. Pau Gasol - 5/9 FG, 4/5 FT, 7 REB, 5 AST, 7 BLK, 14 PTS
4. Stromile Swift - 10/14 FG, 5 REB, 4 AST, 24 PTS
5. Deron Williams - 8/11 FG, 2/3 3PT, 4 REB, 6 AST, 2 STL, 20 PTS

DUDS
1. Nenad Krisic - 0/6 FG, 0/0 FT, 2 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 3 PF, 0 PTS, 11 MIN
2. Jamaal Magliore - 1/4 FG, 0/2 FT, 2 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 1 TO, 2 PTS, 14 MIN
3. Ryan Bowen - 0/2 FG, 0/0 FT, 1 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 3 PF, 1 TO, 0 PTS, 13 MIN
4. Gordon Giricek - 0/5 FG, 0/2 3PT, 0/0 FT, 2 REB, 0 AST, 1 STL, 0 BLK, 2 PF, 0 PTS, 13 MIN
5. Jason Kidd - 1/9 FG, 0/4 3PT, 0/0 FT, 2 REB, 8 AST, 2 STL, 0 BLK, 6 TO, 2 PTS, 28 MIN

Michael said...

I think before we start considering history in a "best program to coach for" debate we have to remember that there is no greater and history'd program than Notre Dame and Urban Meyer chose UF over Notre Dame. If both jobs came open this year I would take the job at Florida because you would be immediately poised for long term National success. The Gators are a top five team next year with the player that has to be the Heisman favorite. They have been stocked with top 1/2 recruiting classes the last two years and I'm sure Urban has them set up for another (small) great class. Recruiting in the region is tough but it is also the most abundant in talent so there is enough to go around. If this were not the case USF and UCF would not be paying so well, and I suspect once the noles coaching staff gets a year of experience with their scheme they will be successful again.
I would say historically and in a vacuum Michigan is without a doubt a better job than Florida. It cannot be ignored however that the big ten has lost some of its prestige recently and Michigan has been owned by tOSU lately. In a world of "what have you done for me lately" it is possible that UF is a more attractive (not better) job.
All that being said I think alot of a coach's decision really depends on his ties. For Les Miles it would seem that in his heart he would leave LSU for Michigan 8 days a week.

About Cutler - there was some stat that his 52 MPH football throw is the same as a 95 MPH pitch. How do they figure that out? Magic?

Mike said...

"I don't understand why you did your MNF game summary like that" - Clay

Clay, what's so hard to understand about Dan's game summary. He clearly didn't watch the game, then went to ESPN.com and checked the stats before writing his half-assed analysis of the game.

mcscholt said...

"About Cutler - there was some stat that his 52 MPH football throw is the same as a 95 MPH pitch. How do they figure that out? Magic?"

Probably comparing the cross-sectional area of the football vs. the baseball, and calculating the forces...

Michael said...

@ mcsholt

Magic, got it

Fej Lessur said...

I think in this great debate over top 5 college football programs you are massively overrating Texas. Vince. Young. Hangover. I don't think you can rank an entire school in the top 5 based soley on one player. VY goes to another school and I'd be willing to bet Texas' program would be sitting pretty around #10.

GuyInTheCorner said...
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bkelly126 said...

@natsfan
say Pete Carroll gets wooed to go back to the NFL, which job would be considered better: Michigan or USC?

Michigan is the more storied program, but USC would have greater resources for immediate success

Joe Pa said...

"Has there ever been a season with such a deep freshman class of talent?"

Kevin Love and Kyle Singler both from Oregon battling it out for the last 2 state championships here with both of them being top-5 national recruits. With Oregon being a small population state, the question is: has there ever been such a stellar HS class in one state, pound-for-pound?

Michael said...

Yes, Orlando beat the Hornets. But some guy named Chris Paul lsat the game out--I think he's important in the Hornet's game plan--and Tyson Chandler left in the second quarter, perhaps giving Dwight Howard an easier time piling up points and rebounds for the balance of the game. I'd love to see these teams play with everyone healthy.

GuyInTheCorner said...

I'd like to congradulate Vince Young for his great night on MNF. He played so well he was able to move up in the standings for QB rating. All the way up to...

1. Tom Brady
2. Jake Delhomme
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Tony Romo
5. David Garrard
6. Brett Favre
7. Jeff Garcia
8. Matt Hasselbeck
9. Jon Kitna
10. Jay Cutler
11. Derek Anderson
12. Kurt Warner
13. Matt Schaub
14. Brooks Bollinger
15. Carson Palmer
16. Sage Rosenfels
17. Chad Pennington
18. Donovan McNabb
19. Peyton Manning
20. Brody Croyle
21. Drew Brees
22. John Joseph Harrington
23. Eli Manning
24. Jason Campbell
25. A.J. Feeley
26. J.P. Losman
27. Kerry Collins
28. Brian Griese
29. Phillip Rivers
30. Duante Culpepper
31. Marc Bulger
32. Damon Huard
33. Steve McNair
34. Patrick Ramsey
35. Kelly Holcomb
36. Trent Green
37. Kyle Boller
38. Trent Edwards
39. Vinny Testaverde
40. Cleo Lemon
41. David Carr
42. Vince Young
43. Quinn Gray
44. Rex Grossman
45. Matt Leinhart
46. Josh McCown
47. Kellen Clemens
48. Tim Rattay
49. Alex Smith
50. John Beck
51. Tavaris Jackson
52. Trent Dilfer
53. Byron Leftwich
54. Gus Ferotte

.... oh yeah.

Well congrats anyway?

Sparty said...

52 mph football throw is retarded fast as it is. .

Sparty said...

ah, the qb rating, along with the college qb efficiency rating, the most pointless statistic in all of sports.

marcomarco said...

Game winning RBI is pretty useless

Sparty said...

unless it is playoff game winning RBI...just ask us Yank fans about A-Rod and that stat.

blue said...

****

HAPPY THANKSGIVING

****

marcomarco said...

Blue, you're awesome. Let's meet for coffee and discuss.

GuyInTheCorner said...

Sparty-

I have to admit that QBR isn't the best stat ever but if this...

16/26 passing, 157 yards, .5 TD/1.3 INT, 7 rushes, 32 yards, .3 TD

... is your average line for a game, you aren't a good QB.

His average line for last year was...

12/24 passing, 146 yards, .8 TD/.9 INT, 6 rushes, 37 yards, .5 TD

... that. So he isn't really getting better and he might be getting worse.

GuyInTheCorner said...

FRANK CALIENDO ON MIKE AND MIKE THIS MOURNING PROMOTING "FRANK TV" WHICH PREMIERS TONIGHT

Immitations include Bill Walton, Charles Barkley, John Madden, George W. Bush, Sean Connery, David Letterman and his sidekick Paul, Jim Rome, Adam Sandler, and more....

http://ne.edgecastcdn.net/0000A6/espnpod2
/espnradio/insider/mikeandmike/mikeandmike
_11202007_9.mp3

Anthony said...

Please tell me we're not going to have to endure this again. For crying out loud Blue, most people with a gripe here tend to go with something more succint, such as "Dan sucks," or "Dan is such a bandwagon fan," etc. Maybe you're just the kind of person who gets his kicks out of pissing people off. Or perhaps you are merely an idiot.

Sparty said...

what if we have a co-mvp in the NL? not sure how the voting works out, maybe it is a system that doesn't allow it to happen. i am not sure, ignorant to that. can it happen? and if so, anyone have a problem with that?

Scott said...

From http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=1322208&DB_OEM_ID=5200:

On the Michigan rumors...
“I have to cover this other issue. A year ago this day we had to postpone this meeting because I was at a funeral where I buried a great friend and an old coach (Bo Schembechler.) I enjoyed the relationship I had with him and that school for years.. That is history. I was asked to promo a book to honor him and his memory. It’s “Bo’s Lasting Lessons.” I did that as a specific favor to him and his wife. It was in no way meant to represent Michigan. It is just my history and a responsibility, a very loyal responsibility to that spirit and time.”

“Coach (Lloyd) Carr, a great coach at Michigan, just retired. He has done it all. As an alumnus of that school, I am so happy that he was the coach. I am happy for the success he had and how he treated the players that wear the maize and blue. Those things can’t change. But now, I have to say I am not talking jobs, don’t look for jobs and don’t want jobs. I have a great job. I love this place. This is a place where I am comfortable and my family is comfortable. Michigan has not called. It’s unfair to Michigan to say that they should and it is unfair to me and my time. What I am doing is what you should be doing – let it rest. I am playing football for LSU. I am preparing for Arkansas. I am going to be ready for the next game and the game after that. I love this team. I would not do anything to hurt it.

“I don’t want to talk about jobs and don’t care about jobs. I don’t want to involve myself in that thought process. It is counter-productive to preparation.”

What else does he need to say to you, Dan?

J 2 The B said...

From Philly.com...

" WHY ROLLINS SHOULD WIN

1. On the team that won the National League East, he was the best all-around player in the league, winning the Gold Glove and Silver Slugger awards playing every day at shortstop, the sport's second-toughest position (catchers get days off for a reason) and batting in the toughest spots, first and third. Rollins led the league in runs and triples and was in the top five in hits, stolen bases, total bases and his .985 fielding percentage led the league.

2. Rollins played big in big games – including the clincher on the season's final day against the Nationals: He led off with a single, stole bases No. 41 and 42, went 2-for-3 and scored two runs in the 6-1 win. That helped him finish with numerous career highs, including a .296 average, 30 homers, 139 runs, 212 hits and 94 RBI, 81 of which came while he hit leadoff.

3. Rollins stamped himself the leader of the Phillies – a frustratingly rudderless and unsuccessful franchise – in the middle of 2006 season, when he united a fractured team by calling a meeting that ratified the official club policy: Be yourself and play hard. As such, Rollins made himself the story all season when he claimed the Phillies, not the defending Mets, were the team to beat in the NL East. That deflected focus from a lame-duck manager, a second-year MVP, a faultily revamped pitching staff and Pat Burrell. Hey, Jeter gets leadership points; why not Rollins?"

GuyInTheCorner said...

I don't thin half of those arguements make sense.

Almost all of Holiday's humbers are career highs also. I think more than Rollins.

Bringing up what Rollins led in makes no sense as well. Holliday led more categories.

Leader is interesting but all the Rockies said that Holliday was their leader as well.

Pointing out that he played well in the last game is just dumb. Who played better in their last game? Had to be Holiday and it was against a real team on national TV.

Todd said...

VY is the second coming of Vick as a player. And like with Vick, nobody will admit that he sucks for 5 yrs. And Eli is the second coming of Joey Harrington, he just doesn't know it yet.

PatriotsNation said...

Rollins wins NL MVP award

Phillies shortstop Jimmy Rollins edged Colorado's Matt Holliday for the NL MVP.

Sparty said...

ok todd, when Eli has more touchdowns to the other team than he does for his own, let me know. because i am pretty sure that has yet to happen at any point in any season in his career.

bkelly126 said...

@todd
merril hoge? is that you?

Beetle said...

Sparty,
I am not quiet convinced that QB ratings are totally useless.
However, I cannot understand how Brady's games on Sunday does not get a perfect rating.
It was perhaps the most prolific single game for a QB in NFL history.
Especially considering that most of his incompletions hit his receivers right in the hands, or were intentional throw-aways.
In fact, I only recall one legit incompletion, a TD attempt to Moss that a DB made a nice play to break up.

bkelly126 said...

@beetle
there's your proof as to why it's so stupid. Brady plays what looks like the perfect game, but the rating doesn't show that for some reason.

here's what makes a perfect passer:
1) completion percentage of 77.5%
2) at least 12.5 yards/attempt
3) at least .11875 touchdowns/attempt (~1TD/8.42 attempts)
4) 0 interceptions

GuyInTheCorner said...

todd-

Here's how wrong you are:

Vick's first fullish year (2002) average stat line per game:

15/28 passing, 196 yards, 1 TD/.5 INT, 8 rushes, 52 yards, .5 TD

Young's first fullish year (2006) average stat line per game:

12/24 passing, 146 yards, .8 TD/.9 INT, 6 rushes, 37 yards, .5 TD

Sparty said...

beetle, it is a very misleading statistic.

when you look at the all time leaders, Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Marc Brunell, Jeff Garcia, BRIAN GRIESE! and Jake Delhomme appear in the top 20. Now granted, all competent QBs and have had success, but would you consider any of those quys to be in the top 20 QBs ever? Would you choose any of them over Phil Simms? Terry Bradshaw? Roger Staubach? Troy Aikman? or um say a guy like John Freakin Elway? i am sure we could list a ton more. it is really not the useful at all.

Steve said...

"just ask us Yank fans about A-Rod and that stat."


Sparty is a Yankee fan?


That explains a lot.

Sparty said...

yep, i am a complete and total jackass yankee fan, and proud of it! do your worst steve, cause i and nobody else really gives a shit but you and the rest of your douchebag girlfriends who comment like assclowns in here.

Steve said...

Douchebag Yankee Fan,

For someone that claims to not "give a shit", you seem awfully angry.


Regards,
The Person You'd Like To Be

Sparty said...

thats the best you got? why don't you just throw a shoe, really.

pv845 said...

ScubaSteve has some impressive retorts today.

Steve said...

Well, I don't need to say much. You already called yourself a "complete and total jackass". I think most people on here would agree with that statement.

You've gotta give me something to work with. When you insult yourself it just takes all the fun out it, doesn't matter how true it is.

I’ll make a deal with ya, if ya want me gone. Finish the rest of your posts with, “I’m a complete tool.” It’ll save the trouble of having to come over daily and remind everyone.

It’s the practical thing to do, Sparty.

Toby said...

steve-
why don't you go pick on some of your homo friends you duke loving coffee drinking twerp

Steve said...

can i get a vote on Sparty finishing all his posts with "I'm a complete tool?"


any Is?

Sparty said...

no seriously steve, where do you come up with this stuff? mad libs?

Sparty said...

and i believe i said " i am a complete and total jackass yankee fan," i mean come on, lets be accurate.

Steve said...

Toby, this is a game for grown ups acting imature, not for children who are actually the age that the grown up are acting.

Be seen and not heard, what ya say sport?

Dikembe Meiztombo said...

aye

Steve said...

There's one eye for the Sparty: I'm a complete tool. motion. How many do we need for the motion to pass?

Toby said...

steve-

why don't you go eat celery and drink orange juice

CMFost said...

Except that Steve the only people that count are the people who post here on a somewhat regular basis. That would count you, mills, dike, tp et al.. out.


I think I more fair vote would be how many people would want to see Steve and Friends disappear?

Sparty said...

thats Scuba Steve and Friends!

Toby said...

or we could take a poll and see who wanted to play nicely.

and maybe kick cmfost out of the circle of friends since he is a traitor and all

CMFost said...

enough with this childish Crap.

I think the NL Voters got the MVP correct. I do not think one game should outweigh a whole season and Rollins overall season was incredible as was Hollidays but Rollins was more consistent.

Steve said...

"why don't you go eat celery and drink orange juice"


Ummmm, yea.

I'm just gonna point you back to my previous post. UmmK? Goooooood.

pv845 said...

How about a vote for the Lordz of Douchebaggery to leave and never return or for Steve to officially change his name to Scuba Steve?

Steve said...

"and maybe kick cmfost out of the circle of friends since he is a traitor and all"


cummy, they're turning on ya. Yea better throw that Aye up while you still have a chance.

CMFost said...

Toby have you ever heard the saying "you keep your friends close and your enemies closer"

Steve said...

I'd be willing to lay down a little bet with Sparty boy.


I'll change my name to Scuba Steve or he'll end each post with "I'm a complete tool", let's say, for the rest of next week.

What ya think Sparty, ya got the sack?

CMFost said...

Sparty don't do it, at least make a bet that him and his LOV friends will stay away for a week/month/forever.

Sparty said...

cmfost,

The award could have gone either way. Both were catalyst for their team, outstanding seasons. It was a complete judgement call. One could not fault the voters either way.

Unlike yesterday when people did not vote A-Rod unanimously. That was ridiculous. But doesn't surprise me that a Detroit writer was one of the two that didn't give him a first place vote. A Detroit writer voted for Buddy Bell Manager of the Year back in 96or 98 when the Tigers were the worst team in the AL, and lost somewhere around 100 games.

Toby said...

cmfost, is that like a gi joe analogy or something?

and knowing is half the battle

Sparty said...

unfortunately, even if i bet him to go away forever or a substantial amount of tiem, he would just create a name we have yet to see him use and do the same crap.

Toby said...

I come here to read about sports, not to listen to some coffee and orange juice drinker talking about bets and tools.

This blog has more tools than Bob Vila

Roger said...

Long time lurker here, yeah that Sparty is a tool. That guy wouldn't last 2 minutes in This Man's Army.

Sparty said...

see

Steve said...

roger, Roger. That's two Aye's.

--------------------------------

Ok, first celery and orange juice, then it was coffee and orange juice.

Are these insults? Have DS's Lemmings slipped into the inner circle of nerdery.

I mean being petty and juvenile is one thing, but ya'll aren't making any damn sense.

Steve said...

I think the Aye's might have it.

Toby said...

steve

just leave us alone man...we're good people.

CMFost said...

Sparty, I am not shock that A-Rod did not win the award unanimously. A-Rod has a great season but you could have gone through the stats and found reasons to vote for Mags, Ortiz or even Vlad for MVP. One of the Boston Globe writers had a great comparison between Ortiz's stats and A-Rod's.

Steve said...

"just leave us alone man...we're good people."


Begging is the second to last stage, Toby. The final one is acceptance.

Sparty said...

but this is dan shanoffs lemmings page steve, so your "aye's" mean nothing. much like your life and existence. but now it's your turn again...

Sparty said...

cmfost,

the big knock on A-Rod going into this season was him not coming up big in big spots, regular season or post season. this year he eradicated the issue from April-September and had one of the greatest offensive seasons of all time. without question the MVP. a joke he didn't get all the first place votes. now we just gotta fix that October issue.

CMFost said...

Steve we have already accepted that you and your LOV friends our mindless childish lemmings who have nothing better to do than try and pull off childish pranks.

The thing we have not accepted is why you have to do this mindless kindergarten crap here?

marcomarco said...

<----Thoroughly enjoying this debate between Scuba and Sparty.

Toby is the complete tool.

CMFost said...

sparty all I am saying is that other then HR's and RBI's there were other players that had comparable stats on teams that also made the playoffs as well as teams in the playoffs.

I will say A-Rod deserved the MVP but a case can be made for voting for other players.

Toby said...

cmfost-

you are just fueling the fire..relax, take a midol with your merlot, and take it easy buddy.

marcomarco said...

CMfost called someone childish, this is great.

CMFost said...

I have a question for everyone:

If the line on the Eagles-Patriots game is 23 1/2 what is line going to be on the Pats-Jets and Pats-Dolphins?

30+

CMFost said...

yeah I know Marco my trash talk in the Fantasy Basketball league yesterday was a little childish but hey I did smoke my opponent 8-0

Sparty said...

marcomarco,

i have been waiting for you to chime in. i always enjoy a limerick from you!

Roger said...

roger, Roger. I like that.


Does this cmfost guy talk about anything other than Boston sports?

Steve said...

cummy, you're no challenge at all. In a week, you'll back over at LOV trashing this place. I'm not gonna waste too much time on you.

Toby,
Ahhhhhhhaaaaahhahahahahhaha.

Well, since Douchebag Yankee fan doesn't want to play anymore I’ll be on my way.

See ya tomorrow, Lemmings.

Mills said...

For crying out loud CM -- learn the difference between thEN and thAn. It is terrible.

You are like 35 years old and married and a supposed National Sales something.

This is 2nd grade stuff.

CMFost said...

A true comment from a friend of mine:

"One of the greatest games ever made. Super Nintendo's Tecmo Bowl II. I remember just totally punishing teams in that game. The Patriots and Tom Brady are Tecmo Bowl II. It looks like a fricken video game when they play."

CMFost said...

actually roger I do when it is called for.

CMFost said...

Mill at this point I try to do it wrong just to piss you off. I just alternate every time I use then and than.

Mark said...

CMFost,
Not surprised at all you thought the "Ortiz for MVP" column was "great."

For a non-homer look at the stats, check out this link, which basically shreds that Ortiz "argument"

http://vegaswatch.blogspot.com/2007/11/ortiz-for-mvp.html

Sparty said...

i think i have heard that line about the Pats 100 times this season. I think in Madden Football terms it would be referred to the "Rocket Pass" with Brady and Moss.

marcomarco said...

The Flea Flicker was unstoppable in that game. I actually said video game line on sunday night.

Mills said...

Your friend is an idiot. A much better common ground for people would be Super Tecmo Bowl on the original nintendo and the Patriots are Bo Jackson.

CMFost said...

and Mills being at the 2nd grade level is still 2 grade levels hire than you and anyone else at LOV

Mills said...

Mill at this point I try to do it wrong just to piss you off. I just alternate every time I use then and than.
----------
No. You honestly do not know it. But you have been called out enough on it that I would have thought you would have been shamed into learning which is which.

Sparty said...

i shot an email to my buddy with the video game line yesterday.

Roger said...

I just skim these comments usually, but today I am reading all of them.

That Sparty is a tool and Cmfost seems mildly retarded.

I'm not sure what to make of Steve.

Roger said...

What is LOV?

Mills said...

and Mills being at the 2nd grade level is still 2 grade levels hire than you and anyone else at LOV
-----------
good one.

actually, i am very impressed that you got the "than" correct.

so...VERY GOOD ONE!

I am actually feeling like a proud parent right now.

Sparty said...

Bo Jackson was unstoppable in that game. BTW, it was on Sega Genesis as well, and was called Tecmo Super Bowl.

CMFost said...

Mark I did not say that Ortiz should be MVP all I said is that if you look at all stats not just HR's and RBI's you could make a case for other people to be MVP and I brought up that article just as a comparison that I read.

the Voters got it right A-Rod and Rollins should of been the MVP. And they both kept the trend going of recent MVP's losing in the first round of the playoffs.

marcomarco said...

It's only 23.5 because McNabb's out. Or, bookies are sick of losing.

Remember back in height of Spygate Fever, who was the most vocal about 'tarnished championships' and 'tainted legacies'?

That's right, Philly.
Expect to see a warmup for week 15 this sunday.

Sparty said...

sure roger, steve, dikembe, whatever.

Your Humble Correspondent said...

Jody, Jody Davis, Catcher without a peer!

Mills said...

it was probably called Tecmo Super Bowl on nintendo too. I am being dumbed down by the minute by CM though, so I don't know....

CMFost said...

roger you are better off not knowing but if you would like to know.



you can check them out

Roger said...

Don't lump me in with other people.

Mills said...

Mark I did not say that Ortiz should be MVP all I said is that if you look at all stats not just HR's and RBI's you could make a case for other people to be MVP and I brought up that article just as a comparison that I read.
----------
Terrible.

How bout that A-Rod is like one of 5 players EVER to lead in RBI's, HR's, and RUNS. What more do you want?

Average? -- Okay -- then give it to Mags. He had a crazy good year too.

Big Papi argument is absolutely a reason to be punched in the junk.

CMFost said...

I did not write that line I just took it from a friend who posted on my footballs leagues message board.


And Mills you were pretty dumb before you met me. And you only get dumber the longer you stay at LOV.

Roger said...

OK now that video game talk has started I am stopping reading.

Damn video games are the beginning of the end for society. Go outside and play games, don't sit on your @ss all day.

I wish the good ol US of A would make military service a requirement. The gosh darn Swiss even got that right.

Mills said...

I did not write that line I just took it from a friend who posted on my footballs leagues message board.


And Mills you were pretty dumb before you met me. And you only get dumber the longer you stay at LOV.
----------
you need to relax big boy. I simpy stated that you need to learn the difference between THEN and THAN. And implied that not knowing the difference is unacceptable.

That remains to be the case.

Other than that, you can continue to gobble Boston's member all you want. In fact, better live it up now, cuz the devil is coming collecting on the BS soon enough.

CMFost said...

Again there was talk about why all the voters would not vote for A-Rod. And if you go by more than just HR's, RBI's and Runs you can make a case as to why someone would not vote for A-Rod. Would I have voted for A-Rod for MVP, Yes, could you make a case as to not vote for A-Rod, yes.

The Ortiz article just pointed out some of these stats

CMFost said...

Other than that, you can continue to gobble Boston's member all you want. In fact, better live it up now, cuz the devil is coming collecting on the BS soon enough.


___________________________________
I think the Devil already started to Collect:
Len Bias
Reggie Lewis
86 years without a world series
21 Years and counting without an NBA Title
37 Years and counting without a Stanley Cup
25+ Years of the Patriots sucking
3 Straight years losing in the MLS finals

As someone who lived through most of that you learn to enjoy any success the teams you root for have for as long as possible,.

Mills said...

And if you go by more than just HR's, RBI's and Runs you can make a case as to why someone would not vote for A-Rod
-----------
What else would you go by but Average?

Leading in 3 of the 4 major categories is pretty salty. Unless the average discrepancy was HUGE, and that guy finished 2nd or 3rd in the other big categories by small margins, this is a stupid point that you are trying to make.

Even the sabermetrics will support A-Rod.

Sparty said...

and were still better than the Swiss, so whats your point?

Mills said...

3 Straight years losing in the MLS finals
--------
To Whom it May Concern:

Please, never EVER refer to MLS as a sport again. Ever.

Thank you for your professional courtesy in this matter.

Warmest Regards,

Management

CMFost said...

Mills how about:

BA
OBP
SLG
OPS
Total Xtra base hits
Fielding %

Just hitting Hr's and driving in runs does not make you a complete player.

And since sabermetrics uses a lot of these stats if they went and ran the information it would be a lot closer than you think

Sparty said...

MLS? whats that?

Sparty said...

cmfost,

fielding %? you are not bringing up fielding % and David Ortiz, are you?

Todd said...

Guy, I think those stats show I am not off base. VY and Vick both suck(ed).

As for Eli... Yeah his career rating is 5 pts higher than Harrington's, and this year is 3 pts lower despite being on a far better team. But I forgot Eli is an elite QB because his last name is Manning. Maybe it would be better if I said he was the second coming of David Carr since he has less of a stigma?

CMFost said...

No I am not bringing up fielding% and Ortiz even though in limit time his was 1.000

Sparty said...

todd,

did you just use the QB rating system? the system that rates Neil Lomax as a better QB than John Elway?

Sparty said...

lol, limited time. at first base, lol.

CMFost said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CMFost said...

Vy and Vick are both somewhat overrated as passers but they bring more to the table with the ability to do more on the run. I would say that VY will go down when both there careers are over as a better QB

CMFost said...

Sparty it is not like A-Rod is a gold glover at 3B.

CMFost said...

actually one of the things that article spoke about if you take some of the sabermetrics fielding stats like range factor that Alex is one of the worst defensive third basemen in the league

Sparty said...

so i see how it works now. steve runs over to that LOV Blog and gets his support. now it all makes sense. thats actually kind of funny. nice work.

Sparty said...

but he is an everyday third basemen. actually he is a SS playing everyday at 3rdB.

Sparty said...

but marcomarco, you should have given me credit for the scuba steve line when you went over there. that would have been nice of you.

CMFost said...

Sparty I think at this point he would have trouble playing shortstop with all the extra weight and muscle he has put on since he has been at third.

marcomarco said...

Agreed, It was yours. Will do.

Mills said...

actually one of the things that article spoke about if you take some of the sabermetrics fielding stats like range factor that Alex is one of the worst defensive third basemen in the league
------
No. The Hardball Times ranked him last.

He is a middling defender using sabermetrics.

I will concur that he is a better SS than 3B though.

Mills said...

CM would be over at LOV, but he lost a bet, and was banished for a month.

True Story.

CMFost said...

Mill what kind of professional courtesy have you ever offered to any of us. MLS is a professional sport and can be used in any argument. Just because your knowledge of sports can not comprehend sports other then Football, basketball and baseball does not mean they do not exist.

Sparty said...

my point is that he played SS his whole career, high school, minors and pro, and moved to 3rd in his prime while he was still a gold glove SS. he had to learn an entirely new position. Ripken was never nearly as great of a 3B as he was a SS.

CMFost said...

True enough Sparty but I still do not think he would be a good SS if he went back to it.

Mills said...

It was a joke.

Use wiki to find out what a joke is.

And I live in KC, and nobody gives a crap about the Wizards.

Until they get the best players in the world playing here, nobody will care.

Sparty said...

see, now i cannot tussle with Steve as much. the mystery is gone.it won't be as fun.

Sparty said...

they had the greatest player ever here, Pele, and nobody cared.

CMFost said...

KC, now I know why your a bitter towards Boston Sports since when was the last time a professional team from KC won anything?

CMFost said...

The Revolution have gone to the final 4 of the last 6 years and no one cares. There normal crowd would barely fill the garden.

Mills said...

they had the greatest player ever here, Pele, and nobody cared.
------
exactly why MLS should not be discussed.

Nobody discusses women's gynastics either.

If MOST of the best players in the world came over, then you see more support I assume. See Beckham, David.

Mills said...

KC, now I know why your a bitter towards Boston Sports since when was the last time a professional team from KC won anything?
---------
I'm not from here. I'm a Cardinals fan. 85 for the Royals though...

They had a nice little run at the end of the 70's through the 80's...

CMFost said...

nobody discusses gymnastics since it is a judged exhibition and not a sport. And the fact that most of us here are not women or gay.

Mills said...

The Revolution have gone to the final 4 of the last 6 years and no one cares. There normal crowd would barely fill the garden.
------------
then why add that to your list of most tragedies?

Sparty said...

David Beckham is a good looking dude (in so not a gay way) and his wife is hot and was/is a Spice Girl. thats why people cared.

CMFost said...

because it is something that is bad that happened to a Boston sports team.

CMFost said...

The sad part is the MLS championship game probably had better ratings than the Stanley Cup Finals.

Sparty said...

so what was the bet?

Mills said...

so what was the bet?
--------
He bet that Wisc. would beat Ohio State straight up.

If he won, then he could do a name/pic change on the other dude.

But he couldn't even live up to the bet, cuz he invented "TBBucsRayLight" about 10 days into the ban, and started posting under that name.

Sparty said...

you bet that? Wisconsin, seriously?

Sparty said...

crap, you guys leave a ton of comments.

Mills said...

And then he bet that the Pats would win 37-3 over the Colts.

Homer.

If he would have hit that it would have been a lifetime ban for an lov founder though.

Mills said...

you should see the big 1200 comment days...

Mills said...

lately they have been around 800 per day. don't know what today is at.

Dikembe Meiztombo said...

"lately they have been around 800 per day. don't know what today is at."

Its been a slow week. Thanksgiving and all...

Dikembe Meiztombo said...

Weaz, where've you been?

Dikembe Meiztombo said...

Again, thanks for the link, cumfast.

ns

Dikembe Meiztombo said...

Fuck it. A Shammy Z.

Eddie said...

"I think the Devil already started to Collect:
Len Bias
Reggie Lewis
86 years without a world series
21 Years and counting without an NBA Title
37 Years and counting without a Stanley Cup
25+ Years of the Patriots sucking
3 Straight years losing in the MLS finals"

See, this is why people hate Boston. As a student at the University of Maryland, I take offense to you claiming Len Bias as a Boston tragedy. How many games did he suit up for your team again?