Thursday, July 26, 2007

Thursday 07/26 A.M. Quickie:
Scandals, Vick, SI vs. Yahoo, More!

OK, if you buy into my theory – that we are in the middle of the worst week (or, I guess at this point, worst MONTH) in recent sports memory -- here's the question:

How would you rank the current headline scandals in terms of their debilitating effect on fans, on their leagues and on sports generally? In no particular order (that's your job):

(1) Donaghy: NBA. Gambling/game-fixing.
(2) Vick: NFL. Top 5 star indicted/dog-fighting/torture/killing
(3) Bonds: MLB. Most revered stat in the game eclipsed/tainted.
(4) Tour de France: Cycling. General cheating implosion.
(5) Wild Card: Your call! Pick/predict another scandal.

Vick Update: Instead of being at Falcons training camp, Vick will be in court and will enter his plea on the dog-fighting conspiracy charge. I think we're safe in assuming he'll plead "not guilty." Watch out for a circus of visuals as activists protest outside (perhaps inside?) the courthouse.

Donaghy Update: Is the NBA in jeopardy because of the scandal? That was the question that True Hoop's Henry Abbott asked of a bunch of NBA experts (and others of us who are not). It's a pretty interesting mix of perspectives (and, yes, some spinning). Here's the link to the full batch of replies, and here's what I wrote to him.

"The future of the league was already in doubt, at least in its relevancy as one of the 'Big' pro sports leagues. The Donaghy scandal simply (and instantly) became the most convenient excuse for that erosion to continue: For casual NBA fans to continue their trend to be less engaged. For the emasculated media to pounce on previously indomitable David Stern. And for the league itself to assign blame for its larger issues on this ugliest of fiascos. 'Donaghy' merely gives the NBA's long-term problems a short-hand label."

Bonds Update: Gary Sheffield's name again pops up. The "clear" chemist (and what a contribution to society HE made... before you rip me, yes, I understand that when used for "good," the "clear" is probably incredibly beneficial to sick people who need it, but you never hear about those cases... only the way that the "clear" basically contributed to ruining baseball and Barry Bonds) says that Sheffield used the "clear," too. Sheffield denies even knowing the guy, but has said he unknowingly did take the "clear" in 01-02.

This "Costas Now" show was just killing Bonds. Curt Schilling chimed in (OF COURSE he did), saying that Bonds not issuing a denial was tantamount to admitting he cheated. (I always thought Bonds DID deny using steroids... I guess Schilling wants Bonds to sue his accusers as proof that he is truly innocent. How litigious of him.)

Meanwhile, Bonds had a funny-ish response: "Don't worry, my day will come," and said Costas is a "midget who knows (nothing) about baseball." Now THAT is funny. Let's see if Costas issues a denial that he either (a) is a midget or (b) knows nothing about baseball.

MLB Trade Deadline: Teixeira to the Braves?

MLB Milestones: We're on the "A-Rod 500" Watch after he hit No. 499 last night. There are 21 players in the "500 Club," and consider that A-Rod turns 32 tomorrow. (Sorry ONLY 32.) By the end of the season, he could end up ahead of Willie McCovey and Ted Williams at No. 15. (There's a significant leap between that and Foxx/Mantle at 14/13. But that'll happen early next season.) By the way, George Brett said that A-Rod is the best player ever. Not a bad endorsement.

More Milestones (and, yes, another from New York): "Glavine 300" is on after he hit No. 299 last night. Glavine would be the 23rd member of the club, with a reasonable chance to crack the Top 20 if he pitched a complete season next year.

NFL Moves: After a lot of speculation, it looks like the Jags (MY Jags – Deadspin Preview of the team in Season 2 of my fandom coming early next month!) aren't going to sign Daunte Culpepper. Good news for Byron Leftwich, for whom I am in the bag.

Meanwhile, Priest Holmes (who will always have a place in fans' hearts as one of the most prolific single-season fantasy football performers of all time) will try to return from injury at Chiefs camp starting this weekend.

NFL Retirements: Curtis Martin has officially retired. The fourth-leading rusher in NFL history could be the most underrated player (or under-the-radar Hall of Famer) in modern NFL history. Based on his career body of work (and where he stands near the top of so many all-time stat lists), he is certainly a first-ballot NFL Hall of Famer.

Tour de France: The epidemic -- of athlete cheating and of lost credibility with virtually every fan – truly justifies a "re-set" moment with the sport, where they allow any/all forms of performance enhancement. It can't possibly be worse than the current state. For goodness' sake: They sent home the LEADER of the FRIGGING RACE because he was cheating (lying about where he was training)!

(Parents out there: As I attempt to curb my swearing in front of the kid, is "frigging" appropriate? How about "effing?" How about "flipping?" Aren't they all just watered-down versions of using the "F-word?" And isn't it wrong to indicate that use of an F-word – either the real thing or a proxy – isn't the best way to communicate? I also have realized that, of my many vices, swearing might be the most deeply rooted and difficult to change.)

By the way: At the risk of blasphemy, given the state of the sport (particularly this month), does that make you more or less (or, um, more) likely to disbelieve that Lance Armstrong NEVER cheated.

College Football: UCLA receivers coach Eric Scott was arrested on burglary charges. Burglary? What the hell? (Normally, this wouldn't make my radar, but at one point, Eric Scott was the greatest recruit to ever join Northwestern. As a freshman, he was electrifying. Gave NU fans hope that Gary Barnett was turning the corner. Once other coaches figured out he was great, he was wooed away and transferred, to UCLA. NU, of course, went on to win the Big Ten title – twice – without him. I guess he never should have left. That karma is a brutal mistress.)

More: Is the Big Ten expanding? The TV network certainly lets that happen, and the move from 12 teams seems logical (I mean, they've already blown the whole "Ten" thing with an 11th team), given that they can then have two divisions with a lucrative conference-championship game. (Yes, Michigan and Ohio State fans: Start protesting now that Michigan-OSU is ALREADY a de facto conference-championship game. That's an incredibly valid point.)

Still, my question is which team should the Big Ten target? Notre Dame is obvious, but what's their incentive to join? Syracuse or Rutgers? Pretty far afield, geographically. Plus, Syracuse can't possibly bolt the Big East because of its basketball tradition. Missouri or Iowa State? Eh. Does the Big Ten really want one of the Big 12's secondary athletic brands? (Sorry, Mizzou and ISU fans. No offense meant.)

NASCAR: Will race coverage on ESPN boost the sport's TV audience? You can't escape NASCAR programming on ESPN. It instantly became one of the jewels of the network's collection of sports. (Below NFL, obviously, but on par with college football and the NBA.)

The issue has always been this: Avid NASCAR fans will watch, no matter what channel the races are on. The question is whether ESPN can expand NASCAR's audience to either casual NASCAR fans (if such a thing even exists) or flip non-NASCAR fans into mildly (or very) interested NASCAR fans?

Sports Media: Michael Silver is leaving SI for Yahoo Sports. That's a great pick-up for Yahoo. I wonder if Silver is going to miss writing those long-form NFL stories he was so good at? Because that stuff just doesn't work (or need to work) online. I want quick. I want pointed. I think he'll enjoy it. It's a hell of a lot more timely and fun to write (and read) than the long-form SI articles.

Plus, Silver will apparently be competing with Peter King on Monday mornings. But please keep it all in perspective: Online sports content is NOT a zero-sum game. People will not stop reading King's MMQB because they're reading Silver's column. They'll read both. And that's a good thing. Kudos to Yahoo on the hire.

By the way, I wonder how much they paid him? Not for any other reason but that I'll bet it was a lot, and I'll bet it was a number that they could have hired, say, Big Daddy Drew from KSK for.

The question remains: Is the big sports sites' blind spot for hiring mainstream media "names" the wrong direction of that kind of investment when organically grown blog superstars not only are better suited for the medium and its consumers, but actually bring far greater "name" recognition -- not to mention credibility -- than their mainstream counterparts? (Great example: True Hoop vs. Hash Marks.)

On second thought: As much as I'd like to see my blogging colleagues get paid, I like that mainstream media continues to mostly overlook them, because it means that the sports-blog universe continues to thrive and flourish. Still, would it kill someone in the mainstream to give B.D. Drew -- or any of the KSK guys -- a regular column gig? (Embrace the racy humor!)

NHL Scandal! Dog-fighting? No. Game-fixing? No. Steroid-tainting? No. The Staal Brothers, Eric and Jordan, two of the NHL's rising stars and poster guys, were arrested for disorderly conduct at Eric's bachelor party. Wait, that's not scandalous. That's blissfully normal. Hooray for the NHL and its players' culture of excessive... fun-having.

-- D.S.


Chris Savory said...

Swearing is only a vice when it's directed in a harmful way at other people, which is why it's really no worse to call someone a 'fucking asshole' than it is to call them a 'frigging douchebag' - it's not the words that are bad, it's the sentiment behind them. For that reason, I would discourage kids from swearing, because of how they're likely to use the words, but wholeheartedly embrace adult swearing - our language is so much poorer without it, and when properly done, it can be a linguistic art form!

Shelly said...

its times like this in sports history when i'm glad i don't have kids right now to explain all this shit to.

and i wholeheartedly support swearing, as well. not as a general rule, but when appropriately timed. i don't advocate swearing all the time in front of your kids, but they're not going to be scarred for life if the ocassional f-bomb slips out.

and "flipping" makes you sound like an old lady.

Unknown said...

The doping difference between cycling and the NFL or MLB is willful ignorance of the problem. If either of those major sports implemented anything close to what they have in cycling now, then we could all stop pretending that our favorite superhuman stars are just magically moral hard workers.

Sheldiz said...

eh. i didn't realize i was signed into google. that 'shelly' up there should be a 'sheldiz'.

Unknown said...

Cycling doesn't make a big splash in the states, but it does in Europe. For high profile doping to still be going on, despite what's happened the last couple of years, is ridiculous and may honestly destroy that sport, or at least that race. It's a sham every year. If I was a TdF honcho, I'd suspend the race for 5 years.
Bonds is not a big deal. Seriously.
Vick is a dick, but again, not a league wide problem.
Stern has his hands full. There have always been a huge number of bullshit calls in basketball. This latest scandal only makes me think more of them are crooked, not that one was "rogue".

re: Big Ten
Notre Dame is the logical choice but their NBC contract has several years to go.
One thing the B10 can do is "develop" the 12th team. Grab a Miami University or other successful midmajor in the region. Everyone says those teams aren't big enough, but that isn't the point. The teams make up a conference, but the conference also makes the teams. Players will go to that school because it is now a BCS school. UConn...South Florida...LOUISVILLE?! Mid-majors that have taken HUGE strides since moving into a BCS conference. They aren't doormats, they are competitive..UL especially so.
Of course, i say take the Cradle of Coaches into the B10 (Ohio State would cry though). Within 5-6 years, Miami would be, at worst, middle of the pack.

Or the B10 might go for Pittsburgh to give PSU a rival. meh

Geoff said...

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't there schools that play football in one conference and basketball in a separate conference? That would allow Syracuse to join the conference as a football school.

Natsfan74 said...

At the start of the season, I thought it was realistic that Bonds didn't break the record this year -- given his recent injury history and his age, 22 HRs seemed like a lot. Sadly, not only is he a lock, but he's a lock to do it very soon.

So, I really hope he does it on Sunday. On a day when Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken both go into the Hall of Fame, it will certainly detract from the limelight he would otherwise receive. Plus, the commissioner, and almost every other major baseball person, will be in Cooperstown, not San Fran.

Or, he could do it on a day when A-Rod hits 500 or Glavine wins 300. Anything to make Bonds not be the central figure in baseball that day. But, mostly, Gwynn and Ripken still represent what was good in baseball, and to see them take the spotlight from Bonds during his greatest achievement would be spectacular.

Luke Bell said...

I am with you, Rafael. I would prefer Notre Dame, but if that can't happen, take a smaller school that is willing to make the jump. They would grow their program by leaps and bounds with that move.

Greg said...

here's something to think about:

you either hate bonds or you love him. similarly, you either hate a-rod or you love him. given the pairs talent for slugging, would you rather see a-rod break bonds' (eventual) HR record (he's only 32, as you point out), as a kind of vindication for aaron, or would you rather see bonds remain on top, suggesting that a-rod is the most hated player in baseball.

Sheldiz said...

geoff -- i can only think of examples where the team is an independent in one sport or not division 1. (i.e. Notre Dame, Villanova)

but its pretty early and i haven't had any caffeine yet.

other examples?

jhawkjjm said...

I doubt Notre dame would give up its independent status for football and pull all its other sports out of the Big East to join the Big 11. No way that Missouri leaves the Big XII because they'ld lose their natural rival in Kansas. If the Big 11 would expand I could see them going after a team like Central Michigan or some "non-BCS" school in the upper midwest. More importantly though is what will they call the new league? Big XII is taken.

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...

RE: Big Ten

Notre Dame is the obvious choice, but they'd be foolish to do it. First, their TV money with NBC is far too good to pass up. Second, they would get their asses handed to them every year (If Michigan/Michigan St./Ohio St. didn't get them, Penn St./Wisconsin/maybe even Purdue would).

Since ND is out, the best chance is to pluck a MAC school and watch it develop as recruits craving BCS conference play stream in. Schools such as Akron, Ball State, Toledo, maybe even Cincinnati would be good choices.

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

Uhh Clinton, sure I'm a homer but Miami of Ohio is the best school in the MAC. If it wasn't them, then it would be Northern Illinois.

jhawkjjm said...

I have no proof of this, but I don't believe that you can be one conference in some sport and another in others if you are a 1A school, unless independent in football like Notre Dame and Navy (or is it Army).

College hockey is its own creature and has its own conferences because of the number of schools that participate. For the Big 10 people here, do those hockey teams play in the "Big 10" or do they play under some other name?

Steve said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Notre Dame is independant for football but plays basketball (and I think most other sports) in the Big East.
I don't know if anyone else has that kind of thing going. But that is the way they signed on to the Big East. It wasn't that they were part of the BE and then took their football program independant.

I think it only works if you are independant.

I don't know if anyone else has a deal like ND, but there may be others out there.

Re: Syracuse, why would the Big T1e1n want them for football? If I remember correctly they pretty much suck. Their big draw would be baskteball - and they're not going to leave their BE rivals.

I could see the BT(11) making a bid for Pitt though - rafael has a good point there - PSU doesn't have a natural rival in the BT(11).

Steve said...

Re: Big 10

What about Western Michigan? Honestly, any of the handful of the "upper" MAC schools could be logical. Especially since the conference is unbalanced now that Temple has joined. A team like WMU (with the 2nd most successful basketball program by wins over the last 5 years or so in the state of Michigan - after MSU) could potentially at least compete in the conference. Our strength of schedule last season was #4 in the nation at one point.

Football's on a similar path after being a bowl team last year and improving greatly over the past two seasons. After all, they did nearly beat MSU at MSU a couple years ago, play Indiana at home and West Virginia this year, etc.

Not A Gunslinger said...

(1) Donaghy: NBA. Gambling/game-fixing.
(2) Vick: NFL. Top 5 star indicted/dog-fighting/torture/killing
(3) Bonds: MLB. Most revered stat in the game eclipsed/tainted.
(4) Wild Card: Your call! Pick/predict another scandal.
(6)Tour de France: Cycling. General cheating implosion.

Also, a substitute for a swear word is no different than the actual swear word, since you have assigned them the same meaning. If anything try teaching your kid to swear only when it is really deserved and to respect situations when and when not to use it.

Unknown said...

wow ... I'm a slow typer today - several people beat me to the ND conference mention.
And apparently there are a couple of others out there.

CMFost said...

What if A-Rod hit is 500th last night, according to what I heard on Mike and Mike this morning if A-Rod hits a home run during the last 2 innings of that game that was suspended in baltimore a couple of weeks back tomorrow night then that stat is counted for the day of the orignal game and the homer he hit last night was his 500th.

Not A Gunslinger said...

Also, I would like to see either Louisville or Syracuse come over. It's not as if the Big Ten is just an also ran when it comes to basketball.

Ryan Bowman said...

Two thoughts...

(a) Among the four major scandals right now (I'm not entirely sure cycling counts as "major" since, like the NHL, I basically have to go up into the 600s to find it ;) ) I think it depends on your perspective.

If you're looking merely from a sports perspective, the Vick dog fighting thing is the LEAST of the problems because, outside of the playing time Vick will miss (perhaps permanently), it happened outside the context of the on-the-field game. The 'roids in baseball, the Donaghy bet-hedging and point-shaving in the NBA, and the doping of the cyclists all directly have an affect on the sports themselves.

Obviously, however, if you look from a global, non-sporting perspective, the Vick situation is by far the most disturbing.

(b) If the Big Ten adds a 12th team, it will have to create two divisions (presumably, maybe an East and West Division?) to create a Big Ten Football Championship game. I agree with the comment that probably the best option would be to determine a "mid-major" school in the area that could develop into a sports program worthy of being in "the best college sports conference."

My best guess is that if it happens, it will be Notre Dame after their massive, mega contract with NBC finishes. OR...they could "trade" Penn State to the Big East for Notre Dame (which already affiliates with the Big East for basketball and most other sports). Then go add a Missouri or Iowa State, etc.

CMFost said...

Sort of like McGwire we probably will never find out if Armstrong cheated or not. Seeing the ways things are going for the Tour he probably did. As well as the years go by we will probably be surprised by all the sports stars in turns out use a PED at some point in there career

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Rafael that is a great idea to move Miami U. into the Big 10 but they would have to seriously expand Yager Stadium to get to at least 50,000 which is about the size of Ryan Field at Northwestern.

I think if they are going to expand the to 12 the 2 schools I would look at would be Pitt or Louisville.

CMFost said...

in terms of the current scandals

1. NBA - Nothing worse then finding out yours games might be fixed.

2. Tour de France - This could destroy the entire sport and make a famous race disappear.

3. Vick - Off the field but the NFL could be losing a big star

4. Bonds - Yes it a historic record but baseball has been trying to take the steps to get steroids out of the game

Unknown said...

Louisville make more sense than Syracuse geographically, and they have decent/good teams in both major sports. So, I think that the Big Ten would go for them before going after Syracuse.

But Pitt usually has decent teams in both sports and would provide a natural rivalry to PSU.

Louisville is a natural rival with ... ? Indiana has Purdue (and Kentucky out of conference) - OSU has Michigan - Purdue has IU ... there isn't another close team for the rivalry.

Pitt makes more sense to me ... but I could see Louisville.

Unknown said...

What about adding Boise St to the Big 12? Boise Idaho is in the northern portion of the country, and they just won a BCS Bowl Game against the Sooners. I think they could be an interesting add, and would draw a ton of support.

Matt T said...

Local radio seems to think Tex to Atlanta for Salty and some other players may be a done deal. There's rumors they may make it bigger to include potentially Gagne (who's been pitching great since his return from injury) and one of the Braves other top prospects.

I would love to see this go down. Chipper and Tex at the corners would be unreal. Chipper is leading the league in hitting, if Tex hit in the 4 hole, he'd see even more pitches.

ndyanksfan05 said...

ND is currently in a big scheduling swing where they are trying to get "back to the independent roots" according the AD (White). They are not going to joing the Big 10 (no matter how logical it sounds). They cherish the ability to schedule a variety of teams. Unfortunately they just signed on to do 3 big east games a year so look out for the huge ND - Pitt rivalry to continue (insert sarcasim).

Unknown said...

As far as ND goes, I think that they would be the first choice for the Big Ten administrators - but I don't think that ND is going to give up their football independance.

At least not until they cannot renew their TV contracts. And at this point my understanding is they still draw good nationwide audience - so they're going to get another contract when the current one expires.

Darklawdog said...

Re: Big 10
Notre Dame will never join the Big 10. The fans would not accept 6-5 every year and they would lose out on a ton of money for not making a BCS bowl. Which brings me to another point. Notre Dame is terrible. I'm tired of them being highly overranked year in and year out.

Also, I say the big 10 takes a sub-par SEC team like Kentucky. That way all the pundits that believe the SEC is far above the Big 10 would realize it isn't when Kentucky is at the bottom of the Big 10 just as tehy would be at the bottom of the SEC.

I just say split up into two unbalanced divisions anyway, or kick a team out of the league.

Michigan St.

Northwestern - Kick them out

Penn State

Re: swearing

As some above have said, it is not the word but the intent behind the word. I will add, that some words are more socially acceptable than others. Take it for what it is, but that is how it is. I tend to use flippen' and I blame it on Napolean Dynamite. Though, I curse often and find nothing wrong with it. Of course, I have to be careful of what I say at work.

Luke Bell said...

No Iowa State or Mizzou in the Big 10. Blech. If we are reaching for a big 12 team, I think Nebraska is the most Big 10-ish of them, at least for football.

Louisville would be interesting. Syracuse, not so much. I wouldn't mind Pitt either, except I have no idea how to broker that deal. :) Cincinnati I could go either way on.

I still say Notre Dame or any of the smaller schools in the area. I really like the idea of growing one of the smaller schools into a Big 10 team.

I think they keep the Big 10 name. They didn't change for 11, why bother for 12?

Paul Rinkes said...

I think people are missing the "big picture" re: Vick -- that it reinforces what for many people has become the signature image of NFL players as criminals, miscreants, etc.

I know it's not true, that it's a small subset of the total NFL population, but I don't think this scandal will be confined to Vick, or to the Falcons, over the long haul. Therefore it's as bad, if not worse, than the Donagy scandal, and might be the first steps toward putting the NFL where the NBA is right now.

Not likely, I think, that the NFL will lose its top-of-the-sporting-world position. But I see this as kind of a watershed moment, where all sorts of possible outcomes (and not all of them bad) are possible.

But it's not just a "Vick is/might be a criminal" issue.

Matt T said...

Michigan-OSU is ALREADY a de facto conference-championship game. That's an incredibly valid point.)

This happens occasionally in the Big 12/SEC, its not the end of the world.

If anything it puts more empahsis on an already huge game. (see UT/UF, Texas/OU, etc etc)

Unknown said...

B10 college hockey teams play in different conferences. There is no B10 in hockey, so most of the "B10" schools ...Michigan, MSU, Ohio State... play in the CCHA. Other's play in the WCHA..Minnesota, Wisconsin. I'm sure I"m missing some.

If any MAC school goes to the B10, it would be Miami. One of the winningest programs in CFB, long history and tradition, etc. You're right, the stadium would need to be expanded. But that's what I mean about the conference taking the team in and developing it. The stadium is 35k now mostly because a bigger stadium isn't needed. If the B10 takes the team, alums will definitely pour money in to get that stadium up to 50k within 3 years.
Its a longer term view for the conference, but it would pay off.

Still, Pitt was chased in the past. If its not Notre Dame, it would be Pitt.

By the way...Dan, where did you hear that expansion was rearing its head in the B10 again?

SF said...

Michigan vs. Ohio State

enough said

Here's an idea, DAN...Why not jut kick NW out of the conference and there you have your nice, round number (just kidding...)

But if it had to happen, ND, is the obvious choice (although their contract with Michigan expires in 2011, I believe)

I like Rafael's idea about bringing in Pitt to rival PSU (who was the 11th team to join, I belive)

Here is a question for everyone...IF a 12th team did join and 2 divisions were made, would Michigan and OSU be in the same division, so as to guarantee an annual game (but deny the chances of an OSU vs. Michigan Conference championship game), or would they be split up?

Clearly the annual rivalry has to stay put...

GO BLUE -- Mario Manningham for HEISMAN!

Matt T said...

They can be in different divisions and still play every year. The SEC did that to ensure that rivalry games continued i.e. UGA/Auburn play every year even though they are in different divisions.

Geoff said...

The reason the Big Ten would want Syracuse is because of the NY market. They are launching their own network and if they can get NY watching it cranks up the ratings.

And bowl revenue is shared in the Big Ten I believe, so Notre Dame would actually be better off cause on off years where they don't get in a BCS bowl or a bowl at all they may actually stand to make more money

1999 Officers said...

If the Big Ten adds a 12th team, the logical choices, in my opinion, would be Pitt or WVU. Louisville maybe. WVU would be the best in terms of new rivalries that would sprout up.

Off to Cooperstown with my father this weekend...I feel as though this is my trip to mecca and I'll be able to wash away all the sins of the last decade of baseball in one weekend. Cal and Tony are baseball's class acts--and they even saved the game in 1995--and I'm not gonna miss this weekend for anything.

Anonymous said...

re: swearing

I have 4 kids and have replaced all my swear words with "god bless america," which is acceptable, but the kids still know im pissed at something.

re: lance

as a survivor of testicular cancer (largely because he was on the today show a week before i decided to go to the doctor for nut pain) Lance is one athlete that no matter what, i will turn a blind eye to any indiscretion...if he cheated, he did a greater good for the world while doing it, unlike bonds or big mac.

re: tour de france

honestly, how many people would actually be talking about the tour if these scandals didnt exist? I mean the old addage is that even bad press is good press, right?

re: nba

i think the same thing here...i think this scandal will have the opposite effect and improve the viewing of the nba...people just love a good scandal/soap opera. The longer and deeper it gets dragged out, the more the nba stays in the spotlight.

Big D said...

Super late (or maybe super early) with this comment re-post from last night, but here goes anyway:

"Pfff. Underage drinking? That's hardly a scandal. The other leagues laugh at your paltry "misdemeanor".

Seriously, the only way the NHL could get ink (or cyber ink) with a scandal these days is if Sid Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Ricky D and a bunch of other "young stars" were caught gambling on fighting pitbulls that had been pumped full of steroids."

And to guyinthecorner's response yesterday... no, I don't think a gay love affair between Crosby & Ovechkin would top the scandal news pages - I mean, half of the NHL is European or Canadian anyay, I think they'd mostly be OK with that...

IU Fan in Cincinnati said...

Regarding Big Ten expansion, I've always been surprised how nobody ever mentions Kentucky.

Save for Notre Dame they are closer geographically than any of the other schools traditionally mentioned.

Kentucky would benefit from the move by likely improving its fortunes in football – they probably wouldn’t win the Big 10 anymore than the won the SEC, but they could probably consistently go 7-5 and go to bowls with much greater frequency than they now. Even when IU was going to 4 bowl games in 5 years in the late 80’s, we still lost to Kentucky half the time we played them in football. Their football facilities are on par with the rest of the Big 10 – I think Commonwealth Stadium holds 70,000 and I think they sell out just about every game.

The Big 10 would benefit from the move as Kentucky would definitely strengthen the conference overall in basketball (Kentucky’s last few season not withstanding). Kentucky would likely have the same success in basketball as they have had in the SEC. They already play IU in basketball and played a several year series with Michigan State. Every road game they play would be sellout, if it already wasn’t.

Fanwise, Kentucky fans travel very well, both football and basketball.

This makes so much sense, it surely will never happen.

If you could also trade Louisville for Penn State, that would put both teams in geographically appropriate conferences, though Louisville wouldn’t be quite the big dog in football in the Big 10 like it is in the Big East.

pv845 said...

One problem with adding Miami of Ohio or UK, the Big Ten conference requires all of their schools to be accreditted by a certain body. I remember ESPN talking about it a couple of years back when the ACC and BIG East all shook up their memberships. As I remember, Pitt, Iowa State, Illinois State, Central Mich are not and the only schools next to Big Ten states were Missouri and Notre Dame.

As for the NBA losing its place in the Pro Sports, I look at it like this: Top Tier is NFL, NCAA FB, NCAA March Madness (yes, ncaa is not pro, but they have a hell of a lot more viewers than NBA or MLB) Second tier: MLB, NBA, NASCAR. Third tier: NHL, AFL, Olympics.

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...

@ rev:

I agree with you on Miami of Ohio. The point I was going for was to grab a school from the MAC, mainly for geographic reasons.

Luke Bell said...

The more I look at it, the more I like Louisville in the Big 10. I am against West Virginia, but that is just because I have a dislike for them. I wish I had a better reason than that, but they do make sense geographicly (at least as much as PSU)

Kentucky? Interesting idea, but I don't think so. Too much tradition with the SEC.

And I would be against the geographical split of the conference. I don't want Michigan, OSU, PSU, MSU all in the same division. I like the idea of splitting OSU and Michigan up, but still let them play each year. I would do it this way:


6th team (Louisville)

Mostly geographic, but without totally loading one division.

jhawkjjm said...

As others have said, its easier to move up a MAC team than it would be to raid another BCS conference. Though it has happened, just ask the Big East.

When thinking of this, you have to consider more than just football. Why would Kentucky leave the SEC and their rivalries in basketball? Same with a team like Syracuse. Teams with a rich basketball tradition won't be as eager to leave.

and thanks raf for the hockey answer. I knew some about how Hockey East works (originally being from the New england) but wasn't sure about the Big 10 since they actually have schools that play.

Brian in Oxford said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...


Brian in Oxford said...

Even the latest Harry Potter has two instances of "effing" in the first 400 pages. But "arse" is used and set apart in italics at one point. I'm just guessing those words are over my 8-year-old's head.

The Big 10 has to go up to 12 rather back down to 10, lawdog, because you need 12 to be allowed to have a league championship game with all its revenue. Are Northwestern and Purdue private? The rest are just huge state universities, so my guess is that they'd want a school with proven resources along those lines. As for the name, something with "DoDeca" in it would be cool, to set it apart from the big 12.

And with the scandals, I think we can say that sports have truly become male soap operas....

Luke Bell said...

And yes, I think Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, MSU, and OSU are the only Big 10 schools that play hockey. Wisconsin and Minnesota are in the WCHA, the others in the CCHA. I miss going to Badger hockey games.

Dan Shanoff said...

Wow. I must have done something right this morning, because it's only 10:30 and the comments section is rolling.

CorrND said...

2 points about adding a school to the 'Big 11':

1. Miami (OH) is actually a very large school, about 20k students total. That's still only about half of the average of Big 10 schools, but it's not a "small midwestern school".

2. The BCS payout to Notre Dame was lowered to a level more in line with what a school in a conference would get after sharing. I think it's somewhere around $4.5M instead of the over-$10M they were getting before, so losing the BCS payout isn't the drawback it once was.

Still, ND will probably never give up its independent status. Besides the "tradition" that drives everything at ND, money talks and the lucrative NBC TV contract still exists (and will likely be extended).

Unknown said...

All B10 schools are in a "Research University" type of category that has to be certified.

By that criteria, sadly, my Miami University Redhawks would not be able to apply, as Miami has always concentrated efforts on undergraduate education, not on research status.

Luke Bell said...

Re- Big 10 new name: How about the Big Dozen? I still think they keep the Big 10 name, but speculation is fun.

bkelly126 said...

stop with kentucky, the SEC already has 12 teams and a championship game. they are not going to just give up their basketball powerhouse. I'm not sure about louisville either, they seem content to be the big fish in the big east. WVU or pitt seem like better canidates

as far as the possible "divisions", if OSU and Mich are on different sides, we could see 2 games a season which honestly I think will take away some of the rivalry's prestige. Duke/Unc is great in basketball, but if they split the season series there is no sense of bragging rights.

Unknown said...


Yeah, Dan. You did something right...College Football topics. Those have always brought out the most convo.

Besides, half the comments are me trying to pump up my alma mater.

Unknown said...

Wow, lots of comments today:
- The Donaghy scandal is easily the worst. Vick is just a player in a game, this gambling scandla calls the whole credibility of the game into question. Infinitely more damaging.

- Sheff is an ass, why do people still isten to him?

- The tour de France is a joke, but it has been for some time. It only gained popularity when a cherating American won it a few times. Time to let it slide back into relative obscurity.\

- Swearing a vice? Don't be such a pussy.

- College sports are minor league sports at best.

- NASCAR will not attract many new fans, no matter how hard ESPN tries. It is guys driving in a circle. Sure, crashes are fun viewing, but that is what highlights are ofr.

- Glad ot hear that because you want qucik, pointed stories online that Silver's long stories will not work at Yahoo. Glad you speak for all Internet users.

bkelly126 said...

oh yeah, what about ohio university? that way we could have the battle to see which is "the" state university

CorrND said...

brian in oxford -- Purdue is a state university. Indiana actually has 5 large public universities.

Indiana University (38k)
Purdue University (39k)
Ball State University (20k)
Indiana State University (10k)
University of Southern Indiana (10k)

There's even a 6th if you count Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis (IUPUI), a 29k student school.

hskr dave said...

If the Big 10 expands, it will snipe a Big East, MAC, or CUSA school.

Umm I think in the mid 90's NASCAR was on ESPN, and that is one of the reasons that it is as big as it is today. Other than that, I think NASCAR has jumped the shark in terms of huge Growth.

Natsfan74 said...

Last year, just before the OSU/ Michigan Game, the B10 Commissioner said the conference wouldn't play a championship game, even if it did get a 12th team. The money is great, but the risk is much greater. Florida was behind a good Arkansas team in their championship game last year too -- so if Arkansas wins that it's Michigan/ tOSU rematch and the SEC loses out on a champion. That's happened quite a few times since championships became popular -- the "better" team losing and costing the conference a chance at a championship.

If the B10 did expand, they would probably keep the name B10. But, they should pick their alignment the way the ACC did, pick 6 natural rivalries and then split the teams with one team from each rivalry in each division. Now, the ACC plays their own division and their natural rival every year, and plays only 2 other teams from the other division (FSU/ Miami are natural rivals in different divisions so they play every year).

ND wouldn't join the Big 10 because of the schedule flexibility and the tv deals. They only get a "normal conference" share of BCS money, so they don't get a portion of the BCS payout, same as the rest of the teams who are in conferences.

A few years ago, Army played in Conference USA in football and the Patriot League in everything else. There are a few Big East schools that are BB only (Villanova and Georgetown, and probably others). But mostly, teams are in a conference for everything. And, I don't see the Big 10 be willing to share a team with any other conference, given that they are pretty good in most sports...

PatriotsNation said...

The Harry Potter giant three-headed dog Fluffy would be Mike Vick's dream competitor!!

Too soon??

ndyanksfan05 said...

I am laughing at my computer at the people saying that the reason ND won't join the big ten is that they are scared...that's funny stuff. ND plays a schedule comparable to big ten schools (if not harder) every year. And given the fact that in the new weis era the school is posting back-back-back top 10 recruiting years (comparable to USC and Texas in that span) including this years current number 1 class, ND football is up.

Bring on the "oh they play the military schools" argument now, which is a joke if you look at the D-II schools most other teams play for their easy games. Sorry ND lost to OSU two years ago and Michigan last year - although we beat Mich St, Purdue, Penn State, etc. Oh and we beat #3 Michigan two years ago...yeah we are scared to play the big 10...HAHAHA

Unknown said...

RE - Big Ten defacto championship being the OSU/Michigan game...

Last I checked, the Big Ten Championship was won (or shared) by teams other than those two 7 out of the last ten years. How the heck (ooo, a replacement swear word) does that make that a defacto Big Ten championship game?

Yes, OSU or Michigan has won or shared the B10 title 8 of the 10, but they're not the only two teams in the league. Yes, back in the 70s and 80s it was a two team league. Not anymore.

Granted, I'm an Iowa homer, but this BS has just gotten old.

Geoff said...

I remember when Notre Dame was 'up' after Ty Willingham beat Michigan one year too...

BTW, does a school qualify as irrelevant if it hasn't won a bowl game in over 10 years?

Unknown said...

If A-Rod is one of the most hated guys in the game, how did he lead all all-star voting? He's one of the most hated on sports blogs, for no real reason, and they make up about 5% of all sports fans.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Willingham couldn't recruit - Weis and Corwin Brown can.

It has been 18 years since our last National Championship...but that is soon to be rectified.

Unknown said...

ouch, NDyanksfan...don't slip down to the level of comparing recruiting classes. The season hasn't even started yet!

timtim said...

after reading cuban's comments i couldn't agree more, both from the standpoint that the league still serves as a great entertainment option, and this proving to be a problem the nba essentially needed for its evaluation of refs. hopefully stern is open to some fresh ideas from guys like cuban.

it may sound odd, but the scandal may just generate more fan interest (or at least curiosity) by the start of next season. and my thinking is that this could be a perfect offseason opportunity for the league to mix things up a bit, like implementing new changes in playoff formatting (re-seeding) for example.

CorrND said...

geoff -- ND gets routinely destroyed in bowl games, particularly BCS bowl games, because they always get "pulled up" to the best bowl that they're eligible for.

I don't think anyone could argue that the ND teams selected for BCS bowls in the last 10 years would have been selected if their name wasn't Notre Dame. Therefore, inferior ND teams always get overmatched against conference champions in BCS bowls (and similarly superior competition on other bowls).

Weis' recruiting points to a true turn-around in the quality of Notre Dame teams we're likely to see in the next couple years. The bowl game streak is likely to end.

BD said...

How can you talk about the worst month in sports history and not mention Benoit?

Geoff said...

Yeah, but it isn't even just BCS bowls they are losing. Gator Bowl blowouts, Insight Bowl, etc. Don't blame it on getting 'pulled up' to better bowls because they are losing regardless of what bowl game they get into. I guess you can make the argument that they didn't deserve to be in any bowls those years if you want, but that is just sad.

Anonymous said...

The only conference Syracuse would think of joining has bin the ACC.

Anonymous said...

Fun Fact:Notre Dame hasn't bin ranked overall number one since 1993.

CorrND said...

geoff -- you're missing the point. In each case, ND probably should have been in a bowl one or more notches lower than they were placed in.

When they were in a BCS bowl, they probably should have been in the Gator Bowl.

When they were in the Gator Bowl, they should have been in the Insight Bowl.

When they were in the Independence and Insight Bowls, they probably shouldn't have been in a bowl at all.

Andy Roberts said...

Bonds can screw himself - Bob Costas has forgotten more about baseball than most of the idiots broadcasting games today will ever know.

Andy Roberts said...

As for ND, Kevin White's little "going back to the roots" philosophy is utterly retarded. His 7-4-1 model, with 3 Big East teams supposedly locked in to the schedule plus our long-running rivalries with USC, Navy and Purdue, which all run through 2016 at earliest, there's no room to add any more high-caliber teams. This was underscored when ND decided it couldn't fit ALABAMA into the schedule. ALA FUCKING BAMA! If you can't make room for the most tradition-laden and successful football program in the South, then your model isn't working.

Kevin White needs to go.

And I've always been of the belief that using bowl games that aren't the national title game as any kind of indicator of anything is a fool's argument. And none of ND's 9 bowl losses in a row have meant anything in the title picture.

Steve said...

All B10 schools are in a "Research University" type of category that has to be certified.

To my earlier point about Western Michigan... it is a Carnegie Doctoral/Research Universities- Extensive, the highest classification possible.

Not that I see there being any urge to leave the MAC, but I know in basketball especially it would be helpful. In-state teams (MSU, UM) refuse to play WMU at this point, even in 2-for-1 situations most of the time because they don't want to risk a loss in Kalamazoo. If I'm not mistaken, we have won against UM in 5 of 6.

jhawkjjm said...

it's amazing Dan what happens when you stop making stupid incorrect comments and actually post a topic and say "discuss".

I'm tired of arguing about NDs schedule, its a no-win either way. I think that their schedule is just as comparable as many other BCS conference schools who beat up on the lowly Baylors and whatnot and also play the top notch teams like USC and Michigan. But I will agree they get "overseeded" in the bowls because they are ND. It's just the way it is.

Perks said...

Notre Dame joining would make things wayy too complicated with rivalries, etc. Although it would be fun to see, whoever is in the SEC, Big East, and Pac-10 would be pissed, because you know that more than half of the regular season games televised would go to:
Penn St., Mich, tOSU, UND, and some Wisc and MSU. Nevermind if a team like Iowa or Minn is having a good year.

Also, how is Tex the only decent trade rumor with 5 days to go? Jeez, the sports world really is hurting!

PS This HOF celebration of Cal and TGWynn needs more hype

Johnny b said...

actually penn state isn't a full fledged state school. it's a state related school which gets funding on par with pitt and temple. i think pennyslvania's state university is "the state university of pennsylvania"

there's actually been some talk at penn state of giving up the state related status and going private because they keep getting screwed on the funding from the state

by the way i would like to see pitt in the big ten just so that psu would have a real rival

oh and michigan ohio state won't be the defacto championship game this year dan, psu has a fairly strong team and all the tough games aside from michigan (which they'll probably lose) are at home

Anonymous said...

If the Big Ten expands, Pitt, ISU and Miami(OH) have to be front runners for geographic and historic reasons. That said, Delaney doesn't like the championship game structure and the fans don't like increasingly weaker schedules brought on by the addition of the 12th game. I think it's more likely that the Big Ten Network will spur the conference to cut its non-conference schedule and play a full round robin instead.

And how has no one mentioned the Toledo Rockets point-shaving scandal yet?

Darklawdog said...

Odelll Thurman, of the Bengals, has been denied reinstatement and suspended for entire season. This will be a two season suspension for alcohol related occurances. Vick needs to be banned for life.

Unknown said...

In my mind the biggest story of the day is A-Rod hot his 500th homer last night... well , maybe. Only CMFost mentioned it though.

For those who don't know, A-Rod's 499th homer last night could turn into his 500th homer. Because of a suspended game between the O's and Yanks from June tha will be played on Friday there's a bunch of weird stuff.

The official rule for suspended play games is that the stats count from the end as if they happend on the day the game started. The game they stopped in happend to have A-rod coming up nd in the next inning. So he will come to bat, and if he hits another A-bomb it will count retroactively back in June thus making #499 into #500.

If you aren't rooting for this to happen you have no soul.

Big D said...

@ guyinthecorner:

I'm only rooting for it to happen so that the TV buffoons on ESPN will all have their heads' explode while trying to comprehend what happened.

On another note... the ball from last night in KC landed in the fountain, no? That kind of dimishes any collectables value, I would think.

Geoff said...

Wow, that is pretty sad that you have to argue that your team only lost cause they were playing against teams that they weren't even in the same class as. Even Boise State beat a traditional national power and ND has to make excuses for loses in the Insight Bowl.

Darklawdog said...


I must have no soul. I think this would add a nice tidbit of historical signifigance to an already historical feat.

Melbye said...

Ok, so it's 10:25 in Arizona and I just read today's Quickie, and there are 84 freakin comments already, man, sometimes I hate the West Coast.

With the swearing bit, I will repeat what I tell my kids at school: When you cuss it shows that you don't have the vocabulary to say something intelligent.

I remember a story a handful of years ago where Sheffield trained with Bonds in Florida one off-season and it was when the PED's were just starting to surface. Sheffield said that the way that Bonds trained there was no way he was on anything. So to think that they were there together and taking the same clear goop together is hilarious.

Unknown said...

Homer #499/#500 actually landed to the right of the fountain in KC and Timmy thinks that they got it back to A-Rod.

The problem is apparently the idea that a fan could catch this ball and say tht it is #500 when in fact according to the rules it is not. I think this might actually raise it's value because of the conversation piece/extremely weird backstory the ball would have.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I'm not making excuses. We have been in a rough ten year period, but the team is also coming back pretty strong. Recruiting is way up, coaching is not an issue and if half the recruits pan out ND is going to be a top teir team for the next four or five years (and into the future if recruiting stays at this rate). Calling a team that has been in the top 25 and top 15 in the past two years irrelevant is just showing malice/ignorance towards a program.

Geoff said...

No, I actually have respect for the program. I don't have a lot of respect for people that make excuses like "They got bumped up to play teams they shouldn't have! That is why they lost!" You can't claim your team is relevant then say the only reason they get into bowl games is because they used to be good a long time ago. Well you can say that, but it is dumb.

Natsfan74 said...

I finally read the news report where the Big 10 commissioner did mention the possibility of expansion. First, he said it is probably a long way off, as the next step is building the tv network and building that brand to leverage expansion. Then, the telling comment, is that the B10 is in 8 states right now, and he would like to see it enter a 9th state, with a large television market. The teams listed in the article were Rutgers and Syracuse (NY Markets). This makes sense from the brand management of a tv network perspective. But, it takes out all of those geographical gimmes we were discussing earlier, especially Miami, Western Michigan, and Iowa State. Louisville is a possibility now, but I think they will look east. As it is, in DC, I cannot get many B10 games. Having a B10 team on the East Coast would help there. And finally -- the people interviewed all seemed to dislike the idea of a championship game. So, even if they add a 12th team, they may not do divisions and conference championships. Which, back to the branding idea, makes perfect sense. They couldn't put the conference championship on their own network, as most of America wouldn't see it. But, if they sold out and put the game on a regular network, what would that do to their brand and their own network?

CorrND said...

geoff -- you don't have to respect me, but you must admit that I've been making valid points, not excuses. ND has been grossly overrated for the better part of the last 10 years and has been placed in bowl games that they had no business being in.

The bowl system is partly designed to match equal teams to create interesting matchups. Of course, it's really designed to make money, but interesting games help ratings, which make money.

When they placed grossly inferior Notre Dame teams up against conference champions in BCS bowls, what did they expect? I've been picking them to lose.

What it's going to take to break the streak is a truly elite ND team that can compete with the big boys in a BCS bowl. Otherwise, they'll continue to be over matched in lower-tier bowls because they can make money for the sponsors.

Unknown said...

Sorry I am on late - duty called.

There is no doubt in my mind that Lance doped before cancer. Taking testosterone increases your chance of testicular cancer as well. However after cancer, I am not sure. There certainly has been enough smoke. However he had never been caught red handed or tested positive and so we will never really know. He may have been the one guy with enough natural talent to beat dopers when he wasn't doping.

I think cycling is the one sport which is surprisingly clean since the testing works well but not perfectly. They really try to catch and punish abusers. They are banned from a pro tour (major leagues) team for 4 years for the first offense. In MLB it is a warning and the NFL I believe it is 4 weeks. Quite a contrast.

The cyclists can be tested at any time of any day of the year, in or out of competition, as many times as the UCI wants. Rasmussen was fired for saying he would be in Mexico when he was actually in Italy. There are rules and there are consequences for breaking the rules and he knew them. No sympathy.

Cycling will survive but this is still a major problem with advertisers who provide the money. For the NBA, this is one ref and he is gone now. Vick is a headcase but people will still watch football just as much. Baseball is as popular as it has been in the last 10-15 years and is in good shape.

All these problems will seem much less severe in hindsight.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I still don't buy the argument that ND couldn't have beaten OSU two years ago. If you watched the game and didn't just look at the total yards, ND had OSU for a third and long, had Troy Smith all but tackled and he slithered away and completed a first down pass - amazing play by him. We tackle him and get the ball back with time on the clock to go down the field and tie the football game. This is all with under 6 minutes to go in the game. I will never understand how that game was a 'blow-out'. They got a tack-on TD with under 2 minutes to go when pittman (I think) busted lose on a run.

I didn't expect to win last year against LSU - but thye did hang tough for a half.

The team has gone from perenial NC contender (80-early 90s) and a layoff for about ten years, started a come-back - with some very lucky wins in Ty's first year and then came back to earth due to shoddy recruiting. But now, they are on an upswing in which they are maximizing talent they have (which is a credit to the coaching because the talent hasn't been very good save Quinn) and are starting to recruit extremely well (on par with USC, Texas and Florida and are beating OSU and Michigan for mid-west kids). So it is a cause to celebrate in south bend because all the pieces are in place for a serious run at a NC in the next four years.

Ftrain said...

Funny Future Sports headlines

Don't know how to link so copy and paste.

The last one was the best

Brian in Oxford said...

Now we REALLY need the Giants involved in a suspended game! Never mind 499/500, how about 755/756 being reversed because of that rule?

And hey, what's the roster rule for that? What if 8 Yankees suddenly were on the DL? What if one of their pitchers were traded to the Orioles in between?

Unknown said...

ndyanksfan... on that OSU/ND game, the score wasn't a blow out...but I don't think a single non-ND person watching that game felt that ND threatened Ohio State. I agree it wasn't a blowout, but it didn' tfeel like the game was ever in doubt either.

Not that this matters 2 years later...or even then.

hutlock said...

I just gotta ask... ndyanksfan: are you a Yankees fan AND a ND fan? Just curious if you either attended ND or are from/live in New York?

But bottom line: ND lost to tOSU two years ago. You can make the argument that anyone COULD have beaten anyone else on pretty much every game in history (example: tOSU COULD have beaten UF last year, if X, Y, and Z had happened), but what the hell? They lost. ND lost. Scoreboard overrules any other argument to be made.

Geoff said...

I don't think you can say ND is on an upswing until they actually have a good season and win big games. I mean they make look good on paper, recruiting wise, but so many of these recruits don't pan out that it is hard to get excited about where a class gets ranked. How are they maximizing their talent? They had a very average year last year in which they got destroyed by every above average team they played. The only decent win they had was against Penn State early in the year. If that is maximizing talent...

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

NDYanksFan, I would agree that ND is getting better recruits but I think that this hurts Michigan more than tOSU because Michigan tends to get recruits from across the country while tOSU has one of the hotbeds for football talent. As Weiss continues to improve the talent in South Bend I think you will see the overall talent in Michigan drop off but not Ohio State.

jhawkjjm said...

Not to continue to beat the ND thing, but here's a question that I've thought about over the past two years and the perception of the program.

If Matt Leinart doesn't score (either by spotting the ball correctly or the Reggie Bush thing) then ND snaps USC's streak and there's no Vince Young Legend created by toppling the mighty Trojans. How would the football program be viewed then? Would that 1 win change anything?

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

jhawk fuck the Bush push of Leinert if that 4th and long to Jarrett is not complete than the ball game is over.

Chaddogg said...

To all the idiots who would kick Northwestern out of the Big Ten:

Freak/Frick/Flip Off.

In the last 12 years, Northwestern has won at least a share of 3 Big Ten Championships in football. Quick - in that time period how many have Indiana won/shared in? 0. Minnesota? 0 Michigan State? 0. Illinois? 1. Purdue? 1. Penn State? 1. Wisconsin? 2. Iowa? 2.

Yep, that's right. Northwestern is alone in 3rd place, behind Ohio State (5) and Michigan (5) over the past 13 years in Big Ten Championships.

We belong. Deal with it.

willie_dixon said...

its late but...
who actually thinks that kentucky would leave the sec for the big ten?
why? if anyone the big ten should take vanderbilt and raise their collective gpa, since thats their purpose in the sec.

and the #5 scandal/tragedy is the nonstop media coverage of these scandals when their is nothing to report, like i care what merrill hoge thinks about anything

willie_dixon said...

yeah i misspelled the second "their"


eat me

Anonymous said...

Hey Man. How about using the word Frack (a la Battlestar Galactica). It allows the same sort of flow off of the tounge without being too bad a replacement. It hints without becoming, while allowing you to keep the feel better then frick, at least in my opinion.

Kover said...

Cycledan, I'm not sure how you can even begin to underplay the effect or breadth of the cheating in cycling when the top guys are the ones getting canned. Read the list in the Caple article today. The long and short of it: Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Floyd, Lance, and now Rasmussen--all of them have been associated with drugs, some with positive tests and some simply with extermely damning circumstantial evidence. (Contador was on the Operation Puerto list, by the way.) What difference does it make if only a few of them are doing it--which I doubt--if they're the ones that are winning it? The cameras aren't following those other guys. I'm a big fan, and I'll continue to watch, but I think you're vastly underplaying this thing.

Chris Savory said...

"Ok, so it's 10:25 in Arizona and I just read today's Quickie, and there are 84 freakin comments already, man, sometimes I hate the West Coast.

With the swearing bit, I will repeat what I tell my kids at school: When you cuss it shows that you don't have the vocabulary to say something intelligent."

Melbye: How is '84 freakin comments' a better sign of a good vocabulary than '84 fucking comments'? Swearing without sounding like a moron demands a certain flair and sense of timing - if done properly, it's actually a sign of verbal deftness and skill.

jhawkjjm said...

future- regardless of how it happened, (awful defense, the Bush push, spotting the ball correctly, etc) the question is the same, what would be the perception of ND if ND wins that game?