Tuesday, October 30, 2007

Tuesday 10/30 A.M. Quickie:
NBA, Torre, Favre, Brady, More!

Today's Names to Know: NBA, Joe Torre, Kevin Garnett, Brett Favre to Greg Jennings, Tony Romo, Kellen Clemens, Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant, Joe Girardi, Alex Rodriguez, Trinity-Millsaps video and More!

Torre reportedly to be hired by Dodgers (and taking Mattingly with him): Now THIS is a big "F-You" to the Yankees and a huge splash for relevancy by the Dodgers (who could use some). What a way to steal the spotlight from the Yankees' own managerial search.

New NBA Season Starts Today: Lots of intrigue. How will the Celtics' "Big Three" do? Is this the Suns' year to finally break through to a West title? How good can Kevin Durant be right out of the box? Where (if anywhere) will Kobe get traded? If LeBron and Scrubs can win the East, who else might? Who are this year's Warriors (and will we even know until the first year of the playoffs)? How badly will refs be taunted in a post-Donaghy Era?

That's all in play as the season tips off tonight. I'm picking the Spurs over the Celtics in the Finals (though if I had my choice, I'd much rather see the Suns than the Spurs in the Finals, given last years Finals debacle).

So if the Question of the Season is: How will the Celtics do with their new "Big Three" lineup, my answer is: Matching the hype.

I think they'll finish with one of the best records in the East and, more importantly, win the East title behind league MVP Kevin Garnett. (How has his name not come up more often as a candidate? I see this as a slam-dunk.)

However, Boston will fall short of an NBA title, losing to the Spurs in the NBA Finals. The question then becomes: Is anything less than an NBA title for this Celtics team considered failure?

Here are the rest of my picks (* = Div Champ):
East: 1. Wiz* 2. Celtics* 3. Bulls* 4. Pistons
5. Cavs 6. Raps 7. Heat 8. Bucks
East Finals: Celtics over Wizards

West: 1. Suns* 2. Spurs* 3. Mavs 4. Nuggets*
5. Jazz 6. Warriors 7. Rockets 8. Blazers
West Finals: Spurs over Suns

(I congratulate Chris Sheridan on picking the Wizards to be No. 2 in the East, going against the grain of virtually all of his colleagues, including John Hollinger, who picked the Wizards to finish 13th. Before the injuries last year, they would have finished with the best record in the East and probably won the conference title. Everyone has to stay healthy, but with a better bench, they're a better team. Meanwhile, looking over my playoff picks after a few more cups of coffee, I think I'm overlooking the Nets -- who have their own Big Three, plus a return-from-injury for Krstic -- and the Magic, who only have the best young big in the East. In the West, I will re-evaluate the Lakers if/when they do a Kobe deal, and if I had to pick a Warriors-style freak, it's the Grizzlies.)

Here's another look at my Awards Predictions:
MVP: Kevin Garnett (2nd: Gilbert Arenas)
Rookie: Kevin Durant (2nd: Al Thornton)
Coach: Doc Rivers (2nd: Eddie Jordan)
Fantasy Breakout: Al Jefferson

MNF: Favre to Jennings for 82-yard TD on first play of OT leads Packers to win over Broncos in Denver.

First of all, if it wasn't for the Pats, Favre and the Packers would be the NFL's most incredible story in years.

Second: Wow, Denver sports fans really used up all their mojo in getting the Rockies an NL title, didn't they?

Tony Romo signs 6-year, $67 million extension with the Cowboys, including $30 million in guaranteed money. Not bad for an undrafted QB out of Eastern Illinois. Teams might want to keep that in mind as they eye the loaded College QB Draft Class of 2008.

I love this debate over the Pats' sportsmanship or "classlessness" in the wake of their path of destruction this season, most notably this past weekend against the Redskins.

I say: Hell, as long as you're trying to break the spirit of the league (as Belichick seems intent on doing), you almost have to pour it on. But then there's this meme, highlighted at PFT (and kind of started by KSK a few weeks ago with their "Brady Bounty") and elsewhere, including the normally genteel Michael Wilbon, who all but demanded it:

At what point will a frustrated opponent, frustrated that Brady is in the game late in a blowout, simply KO the QB with a shot to the knees? (Cripes, talk about sportsmanship; how about taking your beatings like an adult?)

The Pats have every right in the world to continue marauding through the NFL, but they would be crazy not to expect blowback from a rogue opposing player.

Kobe Bryant-for-Gilbert Arenas trade debunked by Wizards GM Ernie Grunfeld: As a Wizards fan, I had no interest in this trade anyway.

First of all, I'm not sure Kobe makes the Wizards that much better than they are with Gil (see my East predictions).

Second, Arenas is the most entertaining player in the NBA (factoring in on- and off-court entertainment). That's not worth giving up.

World Series Hangover: The resounding meme among fans and analysts seems to be that the Red Sox didn't just win their second title in four years, but have the foundation to continue to win championships through the rest of the decade and beyond. "New Yankees?" Only if "New Yankees" means "championship dynasty."

Will Joe Girardi join the Yankees? I presume so. How long will he last? Let's set the over-under at Halloween 2008.

Where will Alex Rodriguez end up? I have been saying the Angels for a while, but how about... the Yankees?

MLB Trade: SS Edgar Renteria goes to the Tigers from the Braves.

Jets to start Kellen Clemens at QB: The Chad Pennington Era is effectively over.

CFB: Here's a great story on the student play-by-play announcer who called that wild Trinity-Millsaps D-3 finish this weekend, the best play of the year in college football (and perhaps sports). This is an inelegant analogy, but this was college football's "J-Mac" moment.

BTW: This week's Deadspin column.

-- D.S.


Mike said...

Dan, good job F'ing up your Deadspin post and linking the entire post almost to your Danshanoff.com post from last year. (Anything after the YouTube video probably shouldn't be linked to that post).

kenjab said...

I heard this rumor...Brett Favre's wife was at the game? I had no idea!

Seriously, ESPN must be stopped. Interviewing a player's wife during gameplay (and then a movie star in the 4th quarter) is bad enough, but then afterwards showing her reaction to EVERY Favre completion is just ridiculous. After the game winning TD, they showed a replay OF HER WATCHING THE PLAY.

And the thing is, I like Brett Favre. I think he's fun to watch. I can't imagine a person who doesn't like Favre being able to handle that.

David Kippe said...

so when do we get your essay on Homerism? Seriously, the Wiz better with Arenas over Kobe? Dude, Kobe is the most complete offensive player in the entire league, and knows how to play defense, something that Agent 0 is not too great at.

Unknown said...

From 10/25 Dan Said...

"1 Ohio St over at 25 Penn St (OSU's first real win)"

From 10/29 on DS Dan Said...

"Wisconsin at Ohio State: Will Buckeyes fans have the chutzpah to claim this as a "quality" win? (They did for Penn State.)"

Dan you can be such an assclown sometimes... so YOU pick OSU to win and say it will be their first real win and now you try to make it sound like it tOSU fans are you trying to make up "real" wins... again ass clown.

Just for a little fun I wish you'd check out Schlabach's on/off the mark story on the wwl this morning. It's got a great picture of Tebow getting boned and a paragraph about how Florida sucks... I just figured being a UF fan you'd want to comment on it...

Matt T said...

Regarding the Deadspin post and the Georgia celebration. Richt has sent a letter to the SEC commish

Don't sleep on the Hawks in the east. I know preseason doesn't matter, but 7-1 and a ton of talent they should make some noise.

David Kippe said...

Matt T,

not that my picks matter, but i figured the Hawks as a darkhorse. if they can stay away from injuries, I think they can battle for a low seed.

I think the team everyone is sleeping on is the Heat, big mistake.

Anonymous said...

I don't know if you saw this in Bill Simmons spread picks.He seems to upset that BC is undefeated.

Don't understand why he is so upset at BC.

Unknown said...

You used the word 'meme' twice in one post. Very nice, Dan.

It's fairplay, Dan. If the Pats want to continue blowing teams out, that's great. There are consequences to that, though. For Pats apologists to say that it isn't classless to run up the score, but it is classless to try to injure a player...well, you reap what you sow.
It's not about taking a beating like a man. 28-10 is a beating.
It's about not having your face rubbed in the dirt.

It is BECAUSE they are professionals that this crusade to run up the score is classless and STUPID. There is no BCS here. Scoring a bunch of points on a helpless opponent does nothing positive. It's just being a dick. So, yes, imo, that makes it open season on Pats players (though it would be cooler to see a well-timed out pattern that sent a tight-end running through, over, and on Belichick)

I think Brady will be just fine. The players that will get hurt are going to be O-linemen and D-linemen for the Pats.

David Kippe said...

Colts win win this weekend. I cannot believe I am saying this, "GO PEYTON!"

eileen said...

Even the most loyal, optimistic Celtics fans realize that there's a very slim chance of hoisting the 17th banner this season. The West is just too stacked. However, I am really excited to watch a good Celtics team again.

Re: BC. Simmons didn't go there, so he doesn't root for them. Just because you are from Boston doesn't make you a BC fan.

Alex Gore said...

Rafael, are you trying to equate scoring a bunch of points to an intentional injuring of someone else? Talk about a lack of perspective.

And the fact that they are professionals is why the concept of running up the score is so silly in the first place. The Patriots offense is being paid to play offense and the oppossing teams defense is being paid to prevent that from happening. If the Patriots are scoring a bunch of points, is that not also representative of the fact that the other teams defense isn't doing their job?

Sports have some pretty inane "unwritten rules".

Bill said...

Simmons went to Holy Cross and apparently they hate BC as well..

Pats win by at least 20. I see the game playing out similar to the Cowboys game. I'm not a Pats fan either. Here's hoping Freeney gets a good shot at that left knee of Brady's..

marcomarco said...

I normally have about a 90 minute commute from my home to my work in downtown Boston.

Today? 2h 45m. The commute home should be even more fun.

Worth every minute.

Already tens of thousands of fans lining the parade route. Most of them are armed with beer, silly string and toilet paper. Their voices will be gone by noon.

God, I miss college.

ToddTheJackass said...

Yes, Simmons went to Holy Cross, who at least awhile ago was BC's true rival. But his hate for BC isn't complete hate though, as he grew up rooting for BC because I think his mom went there.

But yes, important for people to realize out there, not many people who didn't go to BC or have strong family ties to BC actually root for BC in these parts. As a BC alum, Red Sox fan, and Pats fan, it's good to be me though right now. Even if the rest goes to shit (as it still easily could), I'm pretty happy with the Red Sox...

I haven't really cared about the Celtics for a few years, so I'm not about to jump on that bandwagon.

Anyone else going to the Red Sox parade today?

Ftrain said...

First off I'm with rafael for all the reasons he stated.

Second, how is Joe Torre going to the Dodgers a dig against at the Yankees. I can understand if he went to the Red Sox but the Dodgers. Perhaps if it was 1950 and the Dodgers were still in Brooklyn I would agree with your statement.

You sound as foolish as Gammons and Olney did yesterday.

pv845 said...

I don't equate running up the score with intentionally injuring someone. However, given the bad blood between teams and people playing in the heat of the game, I can see tempers getting a lot more out of hand with the starters in teh game.

As for the professionals thing, I agree that they are professionals, but how would each of you like it if you things weren't going well in your job and someone came in and kept piling on?

Steve said...

"Their voices will be gone by noon."

If only they would stay that way forever...

marcomarco said...

@ todd

I'm at Cambridge st (next to city hall), almost at the end of the route.

DP said...

I still say they go for Brady's knees. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I would love to watch Golden Boy roll on the ground in agony and then see Corey Simon do a pretend tee-off over his corpse. is it bad sportsmanship? yep. Does that matter if you are playing the NFL's equivalent to the cold war Russians? nope. As Chaney would say 'send in the goon!'

marcomarco said...

@ ftrain

You sound as foolish as Gammons and Olney did yesterday.

I suppose MLB CEO Bob DuPuy sounded foolish also?

Ftrain said...

@Alex Gore

One of the unwritten rules of sports (& life) is also don't be a dick which the Pats aren't following.

If the 2nd and 3rd string players were the ones on the field late in the game and they were scoring then i would have no problems with Pats. I'd be "hey, the Pats benchwarmers are really good" and I would agree with the philiosophy of the 2nd/3rd stringers are being paid to do a professional job.

But the fact of the matter is they're not. The 1st team is in late in the game running up the score. And if Brady gets hurt late in the game b/c of a late hit it will be all Belichick's fault.

marcomarco said...

I bet Boras feels pretty foolish as well.

"I apologize to the Boston Red Sox and Colorado Rockies and their players, Major League Baseball and its players, and baseball fans everywhere for that interference," he said in a statement. "The teams and players involved deserved to be the focus of the evening and honored with the utmost respect. The unfortunate result was not my intent, but is solely my fault. I could have handled this situation better, and for that I am truly sorry."

Dave Kern said...

I don't think oppossing players should be going after Brady's knees, but I would LOVE to see some good solid hits even if they have to come after the whistle. If he is in the game...put him on the ground and keeping doing it till you get thrown out of the game for personal fouls or he is taken out.

That's right. I'm promoting "goonism." Why? Because the Patriots are assholes and bringing it on themselves.

The Mark Show said...

PV said:
As for the professionals thing, I agree that they are professionals, but how would each of you like it if you things weren't going well in your job and someone came in and kept piling on?

Well according to some people here you would then be able to punch them in the face or whatever.

You reap what you sow? True, every other team in the league has the right to run up the score on the Pats as much as they want. Intentionally injuring someone and threatening their season and/or career is on a completely different level.

Ftrain said...


Yes, he did sound foolish too!

If you don't paid it no mind, then it wouldn't be an issue.

Kinda like the Simpsons Halloween eps where the advertisments came to life.

Man: If people stop paying attention to it, pretty soon, it goes away.

Lisa: Like that old woman who couldn't find the beef?

Steve said...

"One of the unwritten rules of sports (& life) is also don't be a dick which the Pats aren't following."

In general, the whole city of Boston doesn't follow that unwritten rule, not just the Patriots.

Darklawdog said...

I just know my job would be so much better if I could legally hit people for being dicks.

Luke Bell said...

The easy answer would be to remove the starters. Don't run the risk of your key players getting hurt, whether it is intentional or not. And you get to keep some shred of sportsmanship as a bonus.

I see it more as the team is paid to win the game and ultimately the championship. Once you have the game in hand, there is no need to pile on. But if there is insistance that "the offense is paid to score, and the defense is paid to stop them," then why not go for the cheap shots and try to injure? They are getting paid to stop them in any way they can, right?

Jingoist said...

I hate to sound like a homer but... show me a team that can actually get to Brady before you start talking bounty/cheap hit.

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...

First of all, Corey Simon doesn't play for the Colts anymore. He's with Tennesse now.

Second, I am stunned and appalled by the calls for intentionally injuring someone. Is this what it has come to in the NFL these days? "If you can't beat 'em, cripple 'em?" Makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. Take your beatings like a man.

Natsfan74 said...

Golic said it best on Mike and Mike this morning -- if you don't want the Pats to run up the score then play defense and stop them.

There are 2 major differences between college and pro teams running up the score. 1 - there are no steps to build parity into college football, if Florida wants to beat Citadel by 95, there's nothing Citadel can do to compete so just take your money and go home. There's no expectation that the talent will be there to compete with a top flight program. 2 - College teams on home games can dress 110 players, so it's easy to go 3 deep or more at every single position and want people to play (it's why Vandy's worst ever losses are at home, when teams like Florida and LSU can only travel with 60 players and not go as deep). The NFL only has 55 players, so they don't have nearly as many options to go to late in a game. Now, the Pats do have 3 QBs, so they could make changes -- but why?

I do like that the Pats are letting Eckel carry the ball late in games. It's Bill's tribute to the Naval Academy, and it's great to see an Academy grad (from any academy) score a touchdown in Dallas.

Finally, NFL players will not intentionally hurt Brady, no matter how much they are running up the score. Every player on the field realizes that it is first, and foremost, a business. A player who tries to intentionally hurt someone also hurts that person's ability to make money. That would cause such rapid retaliation around the league that no one would be willing to risk that. That goes double for trying to hurt a QB, who are the league's protected class already. If a regular late hit gets a $10-25K fine, what would the fine/ suspension be for late hit with intent to injure? How would the rest of the players in the league react?

verbal97 said...

I think it's likely the Pats will hang 70 on the Jets later this season as a big F You to Soprano's fan "little pussy" Mangini, maybe with a couple F You 2 pt conversions, too.

Nobody will take out Brady because first you have to get by that offensive line.

ToddTheJackass said...

Natsfan brings up an excellent point in that a cheap shot with intent to injure would cost someone a lot of money, as they could be suspended without pay, right? My guess is no one is loyal enough to their team to give up a couple weeks of their paycheck.

A late hit is one thing (I can't believe I'm saying that), but a dirty, intent to injure hit is totally uncalled for in pretty much any circumstance.

Geoff said...

I think you way overrate the Wizards. Arenas is the most selfish player in the league and that type of player doesn't generally lead his team anywhere. I would trade Arenas for Kobe in a heartbeat. Kobe is the best offensive player in the league and actually plays defense, Arenas is a chucker.

todd said...

pv, that is exactly how an average job works. You don't see Chevy salesmen going out and cutting the tongues out of Toyota salesmen because they are getting trounced in sales do you? The point of any organization, be it an NFL team or a company, is to crush the competition. Welcome to professional darwinism - if you are getting destroyed, maybe you aren't good enough to be in the game, intentionally ending someone's career does not change that fact.

Alex Gore said...

So, what you guys are saying is that, it is ok to resort to violence if someone is better than you and you can't prevent them from doing better than you constantly? Again, that is just such a horrific attitude I can't even begin to understnad it.

Maybe I should just go club Bill Gates across the head because he is so much richer than I'll ever be able to imagine myself to be. Ugh.

The heroin sheik said...

Natsfan Vandy may have their worst losses at home but it sure as shit ain't when the gators play as they always seem to keep it close with us. I honestly think the gators will figure out way to fuck up and lose yet again this weekend.

Not only did dan use the word meme twice but he linked to an article that praises Faulkner. He is making this English major smile.

No love for the Magic Dan? I really don't follow the NBA much but they are in the East and they have Dwight Howard which should count for something.

Boomhauertjs said...

RE: Corey Simon-he actually retired last week.

The Wiz-even if they are the #1 seed, they won't go anywhere in the playoffs because they don't defend.

Beetle said...

Hey Ryan,
Bill Simmons went to Holy Cross, which is a big rival to BC.

Also, Pats are gonna beat the Colts by 20.

Unknown said...

I'm a Wiz fan, but I don't expect them to finish higher than 3rd behind the Celtics and 1 other team (Chicago most likely).

The Wiz would be better off with Kobe over Agent 0 but not by much. The chemistry he has developed with Caron Butler and Antwan Jamison would go away but we would gain slightly more scoring and better defense.

About Arenas being a really selfish player. False. He averaged 6 assists a game last year. That's more than Tony Parker and Kobe and pretty much everyone but 15 guys.

The heroin sheik said...

While I rarely think violence is the answer sometimes it is a necessary evil. Fights with siblings, protecting someone's honor, or with my job as a chef. If you hate someone in the kitchen or they are getting on your tits it is fully acceptable to order a code red on someone you hate. Of course we just ride that person until they snap and swing on someone then we pummel them in the dry storage. The thing with Brady getting intentionally hurt makes me think of what happened to Carson Palmer a few years back. No one knows for sure if that hit was intentional or not. It sure looked it but maybe it wasn't. It would have to be a really late hit to hurt him. The only way I see Brady getting hurt is if he throws a pick and before he can get out of the way someone levels him.

marcomarco said...

I hope that the Pats hang another 52 on the Colts, just to continue this 'take out his knees' nonsense.

Ask yourself this, if it was your team on a historic ride, would you be whining as loudly?

If you say yes, you're a liar.

Natsfan74 said...

Verbal -- I agree with hanging 70 on the Jets, if not more.

It's fun, living in DC this week and listening to the Redskins fans complain. Mostly, they complain about how much their team sucks (when they thought it was good). But, for those who say the Pats ran up the score, I remind them that the 'Skins starting D played the whole game, so should have stopped them. It's not like the Pats kept Brady in against the scout team defense or anything. If you get paid to keep people out of the end zone, then keep them out!

Jingoist said...

I think it is safe to play the "Spurs will win it" card, as virtually all professional/semi-professional media pundits have done/will do for the upcoming NBA season.

Which basically makes it a free pass to pick any team you want out of the East and never suffer any spirited rebuttal.

The Wiz? Sure! Why not Agent Zero?
The Celts? Bandwagon me up!
The Nets/Raptors/Heat trifecta? Absolutely, Kidd/Bosh/D-Wade can do it!

In 8 months, no one will be reminding me that I was wrong on my Eastern Conference Champ pick because everyone so overwhelmingly believes the Spurs have it wrapped up already.

Um, this IS October 30, right? Maybe we should hire some Colts players to inflict deliberate pain on Tim Duncan so everyone can say the same thing about the Spurs that they are the Pats- that is, they deserve to be physically harmed in order to stop them?

That being said, I'm going against the grain. I say Celts OVER Spurs. There, NOW you can criticize me for being different. Go ahead and mock me you evil evil mean commentators you!

*sniff* *sniff* *lip quiver*

pv845 said...

@ Todd: I wasn't saying that is wasn't how things work, I was saying imagine that and put it in a workplace where you can hit people legally. I completely agree that if you can't compete, then that is what happens.

Teams can get to Brady all day if you are talking about a late/cheap hit. I don't see any team getting to him during the play consistently. Of course a nice Vince Wilfork "fall" would work as well.

The Mark Show said...

That's a long post to say pretty much nothing interesting, Jingoist, thanks.

David Kippe said...

Pissed off Pistons are going to make fools of all you!

unless some injury thing happens...(i say sheepishly)

David Kippe said...

a team could just send an 8 man blitz, let Brady complete the pass and drill him. figure they are getting their ass kicked anyway, take the 15 yarder IF it is late and thats that.

Jingoist said...

Thanks Mark! I truly truly needed to be awakened to your point we need to pontificate here in this hallowed shell of a high school debate club setting.

Natsfan74 said...

That's ok, Jingo. I am taking the Rockets out of the West. Why? because why not. They match-up well with the Spurs. We all know the Suns are chokers. They were in a solid position last year and choked against Utah (which won't happen again). And T-Mac and Yao will easily miss 15-20 games due to injury during the regular season, leaving them fresh to compete in the playoffs. My pick is Rockets over Wizards! And, when this season is over, noone will remember that pick but me, so the only way I will have to answer to it is when I call it back up and show everyone what a genius I am.

CMFost said...

Lupica rips A-Rod and Boras

JJ said...


Shanoff Word of the Day Calendar for October 30, 2007:


Use it on your friends, they'll be under the impression you have a speech impediment and you're actually saying "mime".

Chris Savory said...

As a Brit, this antipathy towards 'running up the score' seems very odd to me. Our professional sporting culture is geared towards winning as decisively as possible, which is why you saw New Zealand putting 100 points on Portugal in the Rugby World Cup, and Arsenal thrashing Slavia Prague 7-0 in the Champions League. If you want to be a professional athlete, don't cry when someone better than you comes along and does his or her job properly. I'm sure the Redskins are earning enough money to compensate for any bruising their egos may have sustained, and if they're not good enough to stop the Pats scoring 52 points against them, they should probably count themselves very fortunate that they're being compensated as richly as they are.

At a level where people are being paid to participate in it, sport, and especially American sport, where draws/ties are avoided at all costs, is a zero-sum activity: someone wins and someone loses. At the same time, and regardless of how much money is involved, it's about enjoyment, and that's tied in directly with success: the winning team or individual ought to be able to enjoy that victory as much as they like, and let's face it, at any level that rarely involves easing off or taking pity on your opponent. And come on, do Americans really believe that 'respect' is linked so intimately to being patronised? Yes, there's a rational, sensible reason for taking out your starting QB with a 30-point lead, or, in our terms, substituting your centre forward after he's already scored a hatrick, but should you really do it simply to protect your opponent from further embarrassment? Should you run down the clock, or change your style of play, just so the team or individual you're thrashing doesn't feel too bad about it afterwards? If you're playing little league softball, the answer may well be yes. If you're playing professional sport, I can't see how anyone can justify holding that view.

And as a last thought, if your response to being beaten so comprehensively is to deliberately cripple the person responsible for it, you shouldn't be allowed to step into the arena in the first place. Not until you grow up and learn to take it like an adult, anyway.

hutlock said...

I think the thing with the Brady Bounty is that a lot of you are assuming that any big hit he takes now will be someone playing dirty and trying to take him out or hurt him. Doesn't that refute your logic that they're just "doing their jobs" and trying to stop him? How the hell could ANY of us know what someone's intentions are when they hit him unless it is REALLY blatant (like, WWE-kinda blatant)? I think if Brady gets smashed on a few plays, a bunch of you Pats defenders are gonna cry foul, which would be the pinnacle of hypocrisy. If running up the score is "what they're paid to do" then tacking Tom Brady HARD is what the other team is paid to do, right? Its like you're trying to set it up in advance that if Brady gets knocked out of a game, it was some poor-sport intentional hit, which is just bullshit speculation.

That all said, I'm gonna take the Colts in a squeaker and look for my man Bob Sanders to put SOMEONE down HARD, like he always does.

Unknown said...

My bad on a poorly written sentence.

I'm not calling for 'intent-to-injure' hits.
These men are professionals, as such they are men with egos (some have very large egos). I will reiterate that because it is professional sports, this 'running up the score because we can' business is stupid and has HUGE potential to get someone hurt. If you want to dominate someone, you beat them by 3 scores and then sit on the ball, making them unable to do anything. If you want to humiliate someone, you run it up on them to make them look foolish.

And the Pats apologists think that opposing teams should just take that 'because they are professionals'??
The only intentional intent to injure hit I'd advocate is an out pattern right at Belichick, cuz he's a dumbass for doing this.
I don't think players will intentionally hurt Pats players, but I do think they will intentionally do things that may, possibly, probably, injure a Pats player...which yes, is a huge difference in mindset.

I do agree though. Brady is untouchable...until Kaczur, Light, et al go down with unfortunate knee injuries.

Again, it isn't that others will try to hurt them, it is just that where a player might have eased up so as to DEFINITELY not hurt someone, that easing up won't happen and injury risk will increase.

David Kippe said...

thanks for the link cmfost. my favorite line was the last one...

The Red Sox won, but we lost A-Rod. Call it a split."

marcomarco said...

@ todd

then tacking Tom Brady HARD is what the other team is paid to do, right?

Not really. Ever hear of 'roughing the passer'?

Jen said...

More talk about the Pats running up the score?? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jaimie~ DITTO!! Dan needs to go back and read prior posts so he doesn't look like a huge asshat.

David Kippe said...

its only roughing the passer if it is a late hit.

David Kippe said...

boston gets their due today. the dominated the board yesterday, and all they did was lose.

marcomarco said...

@ sparty

which is what the 'Shanoff hitmen' are calling for, right?

marcomarco said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
verbal97 said...

For clarification, Holy Cross THINKS they have a rivalry with BC. As a BC grad, I think it's cute.

David Kippe said...

i guess it is. but like i said, if blitz 8 guys. you can hit him and not be late.

David Kippe said...

if anyone gets a chance. go read the debate on TBL.

Alex Gore said...

Rafael, if tthey are doing things, intentionally that "will, possibly, probably" cause an injury simply becasue their ego's can't handle the very lopsided loss or the exposure of their inability to perform their tasks on the same level as someone else, there is no difference. And your last paragraph seems steadfastly hypocritical.

Bascially, everything Crhis said holds true.

David Kippe said...

so that would all explain the booing at the Giants/Dolphins game when the Giants kneeled. thanks Chris.

David Kippe said...

but Chris, in championship games here in the states, teams do not call of the dogs then until the last couple minutes.

marcomarco said...

@ sparty

Got a link for TBL?

marcomarco said...

Where's the new TMQ? I though that M meant 'morning'.

Can't wait to see what Eastie has to bash the Pats with this week.

The Mark Show said...

TMQ usually posts around 12:30. I'm excited to see what he has to say, also.

marcomarco said...

For all of you that can't get enough Sox talk, here's one more:

Duck Boat Pecking Order

Hot pink duck boat
Manny Delcarmen
Brendan Donnelley
Kyle Snyder
Eric Gagne
Bryan Corey
Javier Lopez

I can picture this conversation:

Gagne: What boat do I get to go on?
Varitek: You guys suck, Pink boat, at the very end of the rally. As far away from the trophy, and me, as possible. Here's some pink hats to match.

Deluxe said...

want to read a real NBA preview...go here

notice that they have a lot of comments, jump right in like doubledutch

Beetle said...

If you blitz Brady with 8 guys, the ball will be gone so fast (with Welker, Moss, and Stallworth all single covered) that only a late hit could get him.

Clinton in Indy, you are a class act.
As a Pats fan, I can honestly say we don't hate Indy (well, except for Bill Polian). We just love to beat them. There is big difference.
I personally wish no ill-will upon Peyton or anyone else.

David Kippe said...

sorry, here is the link


Unknown said...

How dare the Jets not let the Pats cheat when they are playing them, I hope Bill doesn't shake his hand after the game, oh wait he'll only do that if he loses.

rukrusher said...

Jason Kidd, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson and a healthy Nenead will not be top 8 in the east? Really? I find that hard to believe.

Mikepcfl said...

I had to post when I saw the mention of "rogue defensive players" who might take a shot at Brady.

No team has more rogues and hotheads than the Ravens. I told my friends that if the Pats try to show up the Ravens on a Monday night in Baltimore, one of those Ravens will nail Brady. Not in the knees, but maybe a little late and maybe put a little "hot sauce" on him as Bart Scott said after he knocked Reggie Bush out of a game last year for mouthing off. So if any team will go after Brady, it will be the Ravens. If nothing else the ensuing brawl could make a Pats blowout more interesting!

TBender said...

Ultimate conspiracy theory:

The reason Rodney Harrison is on the Pats is he is the only player who would take a cheapshot on Brady.

hutlock said...

I think someone said it above, but yeah, its only against the rules if its a late hit on Brady. And sure, you can all say "They have to get to him first!" but that sort of ignores the point I was trying to make about how hitting him hard and often, even with a little "hot sauce" is well within the rules, just like running bombs when you're up 38 and going for it on fourth down inside the 15 is. And that is exactly what I expect to happen. I don't think I ever said, "Go for his knees" or whatever. But yeah, I fully expect the defenders to keep running through and decking him early and often. Karma is a boomerang.

I also agree, the Ravens will be the team looking to punch Brady in the mouth running up the score or not, and I think THAT team has the players to do it clean, or at least within the rules. That D wants to dominate, and they're gonna be looking to send a message of their own before Brady & Co. have a chance to do it. Again, don't know if they WILL get to him, but if they do, I expect it to be pretty loud and brutal. That team is punishing, and you don't see them get a lot of flags because they stay JUST on the right side of the rules.

The heroin sheik said...

If anyone would take out Brady unintentionally I could see it being someone like John Lynch. I can't remember if he was the one who took out Jerry rice's knee back in 97. It might have been Sapp. Hell lynch once knocked out his brother in law in a game. Sure he is past his prime but would you want to get hit by him.

David Kippe said...


great post.

Brian said...

Dan - I imagine a good memory is not a requirement to get into HBS. You say Favre and the Packers would be the most incredible story in years. More incredible than the Saints rising from the dead last year and lifting the spirits of a disaster-ravaged region? You have absolutely no memory beyond the sensational story of the day. You and Kornheiser would get along great.

David Kippe said...

speaking of Kornheiser. He said that the winner of this weekends Pats vs Colts game doesn't matter since they have both won on the road against one another anyway. and Wilbon pointed out not in the playoffs, whice lets admit is a totally different animal when these two meet. Especially in January when a blustery and cold snowy day in NE is a great homefield advantage. But Tony was adamant that it didn't matter. ok Mr. Kornheiser, show me Peytons great stats at NE in those conditions.

Mega said...

All of this Celtics hype is making me laugh. A fresh and healthy Pistons or Bulls team could wipe the floor with Boston. Just focus all defensive energy on the "Big Three", then their lack of depth gets exposed.

Unless Garnett/Allen/Pierce can play 48 minutes a game and stay healthy the entire season, no way this Boston team lives up to the hype.

Unknown said...

How do people not know the rules?

It's not illegal only if it's late. You can't hit the QB in the head, use intent to injure, dive low on purpose, or use unnecsesary force.

David Kippe said...

Dan mega, thank you, that is exactly it. they are not winning anything except maybe their divsion.

you are right guy, i jumped the gun on my comment about needing to be late. however a lot of what you described has to be interpreted by the refs or be obvious, and they miss those calls sometimes.

chris619 said...

How can anyone say that the pats arent running up the score. They went for it twice on 4th down in the 4th quarter when the game was well out of reach for the skins. the goal of the game is for the team to prove they are better than the other. the game was in hand but the pats still had brady in the game and had him do a qb sneak at the seven on 4th down rather than just kicking a field goal. if it were cassel in the game throwing the ball in the 4th quarter then thats different but the pats showed no proffessionalism at all in this game. Someone explain to me how that isnt running up the score, or did you not watch the game?

Unknown said...

The one that is most commonly messed up by the refs is wheather or not a player dove at the legs, or if he dove and ended up hitting the legs by accident.

Any contact above the shoulders is an automatic 15 yarder. If something is too much force when going after the QB is normally obvious. If it makes you cringe on your couch the refs call it.

Intent to injure would also be easier to call in a game with a 30 pint lead.

David Kippe said...

and don't you think guys will go for the legs?

Unknown said...

They might.

But it will be a 15 yarder. There will probably be a fine.

If Brady was really hurt I wouldn't be suprised by a suspension.

Dungy is too classy to let it happen. Another team maybe.

David Kippe said...

i agree, Dungy won't, but wouldn't put it past the Just End The Seasons.

David Kippe said...

this is why I hate Peter Vecsey and why nobody takes him seriously, and why the only TV gig he gets is on NBA TV the show nobody watches...

With all due respect to the above mentioned, but there may not be a more perfect fit than the Pistons. Obviously, they must give to get; Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun Prince somewhat compensate L.A. for its loss of its crown jewel and also it works contractually.

Meanwhile, the vets who'd remain with the Pistons have won, as Kobe has won, so the pressure to win wouldn't be as great as in Chicago, New York, Atlanta or New Jersey, because they know how to done-do a title.

Then again, maybe Kobe's stretch-marked ego cannot be gratified performing in an out-of-the-way oasis vs. a sexy city. Still, if his No. 1 priority is to take the season to its triumphant limit for the fourth time in 12 years, what better spot (other than with a West contender) than beautiful downtown Auburn Hills?

"When your address is Auburn Hills, all you can do is win and win big, and that's what they do," an ex-Piston player decreed. "All they can offer Kobe is a great environment, a winning culture and no bullspit. If he's looking for something different than that, all I can say is 'OK.' "

I had one more question: As many Junes as I've been there, I couldn't recall if Auburn Hills even has a downtown, midtown or uptown.

"None of the above," the ex-Piston player replied.

"The good news is, nobody can get in any trouble in any of those non-places.

"The bad news is, Detroit is only 20 minutes away."

Though only if the wind is with you.

Unknown said...

The TMQ is out...


Unknown said...

Didn't the Pats take out J.P Lohsman in week 2?

Unknown said...

With an "accidental" hit to the knee

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

Here is a vidoe of it


blatent attempt to injure by the Pats. So, they run up the score, cheat, take steriods, take out knees, hit on married women, push reporters, anything else?

The heroin sheik said...

Dont forget they knock up bitches and drop them like first period french.

J-Hog said...

A couple of quick comments on the Indy-Pats game:
- Some one mentioned Wilbon's comments, and I agree. This game is way more important for the Colts. New England has a better chance of winning in Indy come January than Indy has winning in New England.
- You can go in circles on the running up the score issue forever, and like most good arguments there is no clear answer. I'll just reiterate two points that have been made over and over: 1) there is no rule against running up the score 2) it is completely unnecessary.
- On a positive note about this match up: Can you think of any two pro athletes - past or present - who's legacies are as closely linked as Brady and Manning? The two best in the game competing in the best rivalry (Colts-Pats). The only bigger 1:1 rivalry I can think of is Bird and Magic.
(Before I get flamed, Brady and Manning will have tremendous legacies on their own, but I think their rivalry with one another has taken it to another level. It’s hard to point to another rivalry that has sustained over such a period of time.)

TenaciousD said...

Can the Celtics be the Patriots of the NBA this year? They look really good, but I dont' know. Paul Pierce and the C's may be feeling the pressure from the Pats. PP on Nike's basketball site should be interesting


Unknown said...


Are you blind? I'm not Pats fan but Wilfork is obviously pulled down from behind as he is going to Lossman. It doesn't look anything like he was going low on purpose. Seeing that as an attempt to injure is insanely biased.

As for the other stuff...
Cameras, infedility, and steriods are as common in the NFL as breathing. The only thing you might have a point on is pushing a reporter.

Unknown said...

was that a joke guy?

Unknown said...

What part of that was a joke? Bills #67 grabbed Wilfork's ankles. That much was just plain obvious. You can see it right after Wilfork beats him and again on the other angle cause his helmet enters the screen in the lower left.

Surely you didn't think that I was joking about infidelity, cameras, and steriods? Everyone knows that every team does all 3.

David Kippe said...


I think they are the only two current athletes that are really pitted against one another.

NBA wanted to try and matchup LeBron and Melo, did't work. Baseball is almost impossible to do so, and nobody cares enough to compare hockey players. i think the comparison to magic and bird is perfect.

David Kippe said...

because of all the PROVEN insidious behavior of the Pats you just described Guy, I think the hatred people are having towards the Pats is trumping Yankee and Red Sox Nation Hate.

Remember back in 2001-02 when everyone loved the Pats?

Unknown said...

Does anybody else think this was an accident?


"Seeing that as an attempt to injure is insanely biased."

Unknown said...


The reason I don't understand the hatred of the Pats is simple. The people that hated the Pats are stupid people and I don't understand stupid people.

Unless you're a Colts/Jets/Dolphins/Bills fan, there's no good reason to hate them.

The only reasons you could hate them are:

1. You hate all good teams.
2. You think they are cheaters.
3. You think they are on steroids.
4. You think they are jerks for running up the score.

Hating all good teams is just dumb. All smart people knew that all teams were using cameras. Everyone knows that the whole NFL is on steroids. There is no rule against running up the score and it's the pros.

And I'm a Skins fan! I have no reason to hate them. If they employed a dogfighter? If their players were arrested? If they held out unreasonably? They made players play injured or concussed? Their QB made tons of annoying commercials?

Then there would be a reason. As is? None.

eileen said...

The boring part of a Brady- P. Manning rivalry is that they're never on the field at the same time. That's why I'll take a good basketball rivalry over a QB or pitchers' duel.

Maybe Belichick is a jerk, but I think the whole "someone should injure Tom Brady" mindset is ridiculous. Tom Brady is a great quarterback who's having a great year. Calling on people to injure him is like saying someone should punch Roger Federer for embarassing his opponents, or that it would be okay to kick Kobe in the knee if he dropped over 50 on your team.

Not everyone has to like the Pats, but jeez, enough whining, already.

The Mark Show said...

Wilfork was clearly tripped/pushed into Losman. Watch his feet, they get trapped under the O-lineman and his forward momentum carries him into Losman.

marcomarco said...

That was awesome. Got some sweet pictures.

When I get home tonight, I'll upload them to Kodak Gallery. If anyone wants an invite, toss me your email

PS. Tina Cervasio is much hotter in person than on TV

@ chris619
I'm a huge Pats fan, and they are running up the score. I happen to enjoy it.

@ jonathan and Sheik
So, you want to get ethical about players personal lives? Please. Keep it on the field.

Show me a team without sin, and they may cast the first stone.

How many kids does Travis Henry have?
Cincinati Bengals?
Make it rain?
Ray Lewis murder charges?

Come on now.

Unknown said...

Guy, the Pats have their fair share of baggage, yet you think it's only OK to hate teams if

"If they employed a dogfighter? If their players were arrested? If they held out unreasonably? They made players play injured or concussed? Their QB made tons of annoying commercials?"

and the only reson somebody would hate the Pats is if they are stupid? Interesting rationale, and by interesting I mean retarded

Unknown said...

What is a good reason to hate them?

It seems like all the reasons are manufactured. The dogfighter/hold out/commercial list I came up with were just examples. I never said they were the only ones.

Unknown said...

How about running up the score on

Unknown said...

Running up the score is against what rule?


Who does it harm?


Try again.

Unknown said...

I'm a Skins fan also so if it doesn't bother me it shouldn't bother anyone.

If you don't want the other team to score 50...

...don't let them score 50?

David Kippe said...


i tend to agree with your reasoning. the only teams I have ever hated were rivals. never have I hated another teams success or used their character as reason to. in the 5 years i lived in Florida, I only hated the Dolphin fans because they are morons, but the team, who cares

chris619 said...

I have no problem with fans enjoying that there team is beating the snot out of everyone else. I just hate it when NE fans say that they werent running up the score and try to rationalize going for it that late in the game when the score was what it was.

David Kippe said...

we know belicheck is a grumpy prick, thats why this is being done. he got pissed off after losing to the Colts, got even more pissed after spy gate, and this is the result.

Unknown said...

I think the reason that the Pats were putting up the points were to scare the Colts. It had nothing to do with the Skins.

marcomarco said...

@ chris619

I agree with you. I'm not sure who is defending that point. Pats been scoring "Eff you" Td's all year. (-Sports Guy)

Anyone previously using that argument lost any slim possiblity of explaination with two 4th down conversions and a 38 pt lead.

8-0 against the spread, 7-1 on Overs (only under was Cincy)

Instead of whining and calling for torn ACL's, Jonathan and company should start making some money like the rest of us.

David Kippe said...

didn't we determine yesterday that Jonathon was a Troll.

marcomarco said...

You're right, we did. Sometimes I can't help it. :)

David Kippe said...

need full slate of nba and college basketball soooooon.

marcomarco said...

Re: Easterbrook part deux

After the column posted, I felt badly that I had not made clear I was being satirical -- that was my failing as a writer... ...I even toyed with apologizing to Belichick, since comparing him to Beelzebub was a tad overloaded.

I wonder if part of Belichick's pregame speech was something like:

What you lookin' at?
You all a bunch of effin' aholes.
You know why?
You don't have the guts to be what you wanna be?
You need people like me.
You need people like me so you can point your effin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy."
So... what that make you? Good?
You're not good.
You just know how to hide, how to lie.
Me, I don't have that problem.
Me, I always tell the truth.
Even when I lie.

Easterbrook, You wanna eff with me?
You wanna play rough?
Washington, Say hello to my little friend!

Now, imagine that in Belichick monotone. Yes, I've had too much coffee today.

Jingoist said...

So for poops and giggles, I emailed Easterbrook, flaming him for a cheap shot he took at Brady (I don’t care if he reads it, writes about it, or even burns it- I had a thought and needed to express it “on paper”).

Anyway, this is the “auto-response email” that came back to me from the smug, self-promoting, faux-sports column-writing SOB:

“Ye gods! Thanks for writing to TMQ. If you submitted a reader comment, please be sure you gave your hometown.

In case you don't know my big news, Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google, has called The Progress Paradox "a book you must read." Details at http://greggeasterbrook.com. I'm wrestling with Random House to keep the book alive, so if you haven't purchased The Progress Paradox, now would be a great time.

Thanks, Gregg Easterbrook”

Seriously?! The guy has an ESPN column, asks you to respond to his rants at TMQ_ESPN@yahoo.com, a sports-themed email address, for a sports-themed “column”, and the guy hocks his Sociology Class 101 wares to me in a robotic auto-response.

Geez, what a pompous ass. I hope Manning gives him gonorrhea when he gives it to him at season's end after the Pats are 19-0 and Peyton needs a real good hate f---. (That would be one for "The Ladies" now would it?)

The heroin sheik said...


I could care less if a team is full of scumbags. Hell my bucs have a guy who tried to kill his wife and kid and a guy who has like ten dui's. I was just making the point about how Brady knocked his woman up then left her right when she found out. I think it is funny since Bridget Moynihan is way hotter than his new woman in my opinion.

Funny thing is the only two things player could do that I find appalling is what Pittman did to his wife and child and I have no respect for people who drive drunk as I lost my hs gf to a drunk driver which is why I think people like leonard little should be out of the league for good. Other than that beat your woman, shoot steroids, smoke crack at halftime, Knock up every woman you look at just don't do something that could take someone else's life.

The heroin sheik said...


I actually read easterbrooks book before I ever knew he did TMQ. He is a decent writer. I just think he doesn't need to be writing for ESPN. He is a bit highbrow for most peoples tastes but he does make some valid and interesting points. It just seems that all he ever talks about in TMS is why you shouldn't blitz and why you should never punt. It gets a bit repetitive.

Jingoist said...


I don't discount his writing on its own merit (I'll leave that to Publisher's Weekly... Sarcastic patter and a flair for catchphrases like "abundance denial" and "wealth porn," however, barely disguise a padded thesis and one easily argued against with an alternative set of statistics.)

Seriously though, I do not have a problem with his book writing or expertise in the socio/economic/global/political environment.

What I find ridiculous is the guy is posing as an online sports writer if only to broaden his marketplace for his book sales.

Oh my gosh! He's Simmons!

*And the world implodes*

(Kidding Bill, kidding.)

Unknown said...

guy back to your point, is holding out against the rules? how about doing a lot of commercials?

Also Marco insulting my income? And I'm the douchebag? Or am I a troll? Sorry I hate the Pats and their scumbag coach, I just can't help it.

ImaDinosaurROAR said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
PMurphy said...

Not sure if this was already said. Woody Paige gave Shanoff a shoutout on "Around the Horn" today. You can check it out on ESPN.com - more videos.

Unknown said...