Notre Dame blown out by LSU in Sugar Bowl: Here's what was confirmed last night:
(1) Notre Dame was the most overrated team in the country this season.
(And after last night, LSU might have made a case as the No. 3 team in the country, a hell of a debate between LSU, USC and
(2) Brady Quinn was the most overrated QB in the country this season.
(And after last night, LSU QB JaMarcus Russell might have leap-frogged Quinn on everyone's draft board. Hell, Russell might have played himself into the Raiders No. 1 draft spot. Or maybe the Lions at No. 2.)
(3) Charlie Weis has a better chance of winning an NFL title coaching the Giants than he does winning a BCS title coaching the Irish.
(And after last night, Weis might re-think his opposition to an NFL return. BTW, check out this pre-game post about Weis' overratedness.)
* - As I said on Tuesday: You simply can't rank USC ahead of
More on today's biggest storylines:
Saban to Bama: See yesterday's post. I repeat: It's harder to consistently be BCS-eligible in the SEC (Conf. champ or BCS at-large a la LSU) than it is to consistently make the playoffs in the NFL.
Simply put: The SEC offers, at most, two BCS chances out of 12. The AFC offers 6 playoff chances out of 16, including a possible 3 chances out of 4 from a single division. Given those factors, the SEC's top-heaviness is tougher to overcome than the NFL's parity crunch.
Meanwhile, I just can't get behind all the outrage -- sincere or knee-jerk columnist b.s. -- about Saban bolting or about him saying one thing and doing another. That's the nature of the coaching game, and – as fans – at one time or another we've all benefited and we've all been stung. It's hard to get too worked up. I try to see it from the point of view of, say, a Dolphins fan: If Saban was willing to go, did you really want him anyway?
Bill Cowher to the Dolphins? Sounds like wishful thinking out of
More NFL Coaching: I predict – without evidence, as usual – that the next Cards coach will be Ron Rivera.
Vince Young named Offensive Rookie of the Year: What an amazing story, particularly considering the pre-draft Wonderlic scandal. How wild that it turns out the Texans didn't screw up by passing on Reggie Bush, but by passing on hometown hero VY. Is he already the NFL's most popular player? Do you know anyone who DOESN'T like/respect/enjoy Young?
NBA: Gilbert Arenas is my hero. 32-footer at the buzzer to carry the Wiz over the Bucks, 108-105. More: Pat Riley takes leave of absence to deal with health issues. Yeah, but like Shaq, he'll be back just in time for the playoffs. The Heat aren't worth paying attention to until then.
College Hoops: Wait, is Clemson for real? They win their ACC opener at FSU to remain unbeaten on the season. (I might put more weight on that than others because I watched FSU beat
BCS title game ramp-up: I'll obviously have a
You can dislike
Best story of the day: McGwire 70th HR ball juiced! A research company gave a CT scan to McGwire's 70th home run ball and found out... THE BALL WAS JUICED. Link here. ROFLMAO.
Why is Georgia Tech WR Calvin Johnson still merely considering a jump to the NFL? He's a contender for No. 1 overall pick and a lock for the Top 3. (Can you imagine if the Lions took him at No. 2? Actually, yes. Yes, I can. Vividly. In fact, the upset would be if they DIDN'T draft him.)
Add this to the Mike Tice Follies File: He would love to be the next college football coach at
Sports announcer Jim Lampley doesn't just call boxing – he gets arrested for investigation of domestic violence. The "Boxing After Dark" jokes will be tasteless, but fair.
More Sugar: Great point made by newbie ESPN CFB analyst Robert Smith on why Notre Dame keeps getting hammered in bowl games. Let me re-state it in my own words: Their brand is writing checks their talent can't cash. BCS bowls pick Notre Dame because of the TV ratings and national interest, but – talent-wise – they are overmatched against other BCS teams. This Notre Dame team would have had trouble against second-tier bowl teams, let alone an unquestionable Top 5 team like LSU.
Last thing: Bloggie Awards, Cont'd. (Flex Your Power!) Did you see yesterday's post on the Bloggie Awards nominations? Did you catch my shameless self-promotion? More importantly, have you joined in for the grassroots campaign of the year... to get this blog nominated as "Best Sports Blog." As far as I'm concerned, you readers and commenters deserve it, too. Here's the link to the entry form and here's a link to yesterday's original post. Thanks for the support... and the tolerance for my asking about it!
Posts
132 comments:
Quinn overrated this season? Brady Quinn is one of the most overrated quarterbacks EVER! PERIOD. He never won a big game. What an embarrassment.
The BCS needs to once again amend the rules about Notre Dame getting an at large bid. They once again showed last night that they did not deserve to be in that game.
How bad did Notre Dame suck last night? They couldn't even take advantage of the TERRIBLE referees. Ex: LSU intercepts the ball. The refs (obviously paid off by ND) overrule the play. Instead of scoring a TD, ND throws an interception 2 plays later. Instead of taking advantage of Rhema McKnight pulling down an LSU player, Quinn throws an INT a few plays later. Notre Dame couldn't even with the refs giving them the game!
I gotta agree on ND not being able to cash those checks. They might want to go to the Emerald Bowl just for an easy win for once....heck, they play Navy for the same reason, don't they?
Pats fan....watched Vince Young last weekend and also was just totally impressed by his coolness factor. The skyhook pass that shoulda been caught for a TD alone!
Dan, is there a prize for winning your readers group in the bowlmania? Thought I'd jinx myself by asking....
No bowls tonight? what to do....
Does George Foreman come by Lampley's house to deliver commentary?
SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC SEC ... joking, of course. just stirring the muck for the michigan/big 10 boys
Florida players think their speed will overwhelm Ohio State. I would hope that Meyer works fast to knock that silliness out of his players' heads.
Their speed, ON PAR with OSU's, will only get them to the ball carrier faster...where they will then get knocked on their ass.
Miami in 2002 was considered the fastest, best team in the land by far. The best quote I remmeber is UM center, Romberg, saying that noone he'd seen, including his own team, was faster than the OSU front 4.
OSU has not gotten slower in 5 years.
Anyways... Weis thinks Quinn will be a top 3 QB in the NFL in 3 years. He also thought the Tennessee defense was better last year than OSU's.
Dan, are you updating your rankings as games are played? (which is why OSu and FLA are 1 and 2?) Because after the polls, Boise St. should be at #2. National title loser at #3. Then Wisconsin. Then the rest of the 2 loss wonders.
I am going to get ripped for this but Vince Young is not that good. His defense and special teams was the real reason they where in games or had a chance to win. Vince Young looked like he will win some games with his legs but will never be able to win if he has to spend time in the pocket and actually throw the ball.
DS,
What you may not know about Calvin Johnson is that his family is huge on education. He's actually about to take a trip overseas to oversee the construction of some kind of sewage treatment contraption he developed in a joint research venture with Emory (which will eventually be patented). Supposedly its a huge deal. I'm not saying he should stay at GT, but he is more into his education than say Reggie Ball.
I can't say that it's a good idea for any coach to say he's considering other offers during the season. It makes him look bad, but his job is to win games, not be 100% consistent with reporters.
Let's lay off the Irish for on nanosecond. Let Weis recruit "his kind of players" for the next couple of years and see if they're still honking bowl games.
'his kind of players'?? The elite coaches win with their players...and other people's players.
Is he going to get a better QB than the Great Brady Quinn? Better WRs than McKnight and Samardjiza (holy crap, did i spell that right!?)? Better and tougher safeties than Zbikowski?
....
I thought Willingham was an excellent recruiter?
Mike Tice doesn't have a college degree? Well, Bill Gates doesn't have one either right? Mike Tice would be a bit of a dumbass with or without a degree. However, as a leader and developer of young men, most who are at college for an education, it wouldn't be right for him to be coaching college without being able to appreciate the college education.
I didn't think Notre Dame was that terrible. They could of gotten blown out a lot sooner when it was a quick 14-0, they showed some guts but were just overmatched. I was impressed with how they ran against LSU. Still they don't deserve BCS game, although ths year I don't know who was more deserving (excluding Wisconsin).
I love Jamarcus Russells talent, but I think he will be a Ryan Leaf in the pros. He makes too many boneheaded plays. He makes me nervous when I'm rooting for LSU and he makes me nervous when I'm rooting for whoever LSU is playing. I guess he could go either way. Talent wise though he is amazing
If you justify ranking Florida ahead of UNC in hoops based on the "Ohio St" factor then you better use that thinking across the board. Boise should be now worse than 3, and I say If Ohio St blows out Florida Boise should be #2. It would mean more to Boise than to any other school, I say reward them for a great year
Re: CJ contemplating, not declaring.
Because his mom has her PhD, IIRC, so education is a priority in his family.
Because he's doing research that could help improve sanitation in underdeveloped areas.
Because he doesn't want to play for Oakland or Detroit.
All that said, I think he'll declare, unless Gailey can show him the Gator Bowl film of Bennett's potential over and over and over from now until draft day.
Wisconsin is NOT the 4th best team in the country.
All Vince Young does is not suck balls as much as Kerry "The Vampire" Collins. Vince didn't do much to win those games as he did not to totally lose them. Hopefully he learns to throw better than Vick.
LSU is pretty good, but beating Notre Dame so soundly isn't something worth bragging about. As much as I despise ND, they need to join the Big 10 and play that schedule. Independents are so 20th century. And don't feed me the tradition garbage. Penn State, Miami, and Florida State all joined conferences.
Us college non-grads hang our heads in shame all 'round the world after being lumped in with the mortally stupid Mike Tice. I feel like the caveman in the insurance commercial. It's so easy, a therapist could do it...
@ cmfost:
Not necesarily a rip-job here, but...
"Vince Young is not that good."
I'll admit - he's not a top 5 QB yet. But he does have a certain knack for putting his team in position to win games and not making the big mistakes.
"His defense and special teams was the real reason they where (sic) in games or had a chance to win."
Yup. The Titans' defense certainly caused some big turnovers or held opposing teams in check long enough for the offense to battle back. Hell, the defense won the second Jacksonville game by themselves.
And the Special Teams were responsible for the game-winning kicks in a few games.
But Young needed to manage the team well enough to put them in position to win those games.
Kind of the same argument from 2001/02 with Tom Brady - he wasn't flashy with his stats, and never looked like he could take a game over. But when all was said and done, he put his team in position to win.
Remember, the only stats that matter are Wins & Losses.
"Let's lay off the Irish for on nanosecond. Let Weis recruit "his kind of players" for the next couple of years and see if they're still honking bowl games."
i think the point is that they are showed such favoritism by being allowed in the bcs when they do not belong. they should have to start playing by everybody else's rules and, if they earn it, then they can go play in the bcs games. if charlie weiss can recruit and coach well enough to put top level teams on the field, i don't think anyone would have a problem with them playing an lsu. last night they were so ridiculously overmatched - and yet they rake in 14 million bucks. that's why so many people hate notre dame
Dan, please comment further.
"Charlie Weis has a better chance of winning an NFL title coaching the Giants than he does winning a BCS title coaching the Irish."
I'm sorry, WHAT?! Please explain to me how a guy who is doing mediocre as a head coach at the college level is going to do excellent at the pro level.
Actually, let me back up for a second here. I think it IS too early to judge Weis, being that he is playing with some of Ty's guys and has had little chance at recruiting thus far. He might be able to turn Notre Dame into a DESERVING powerhouse again, and then, he might not be able to do that.
Point is, he needs time. Be that as it may, I'd like to exactly why he would be a better head coach in the pros if he hasn't shown what he can do as a head coach in college.
Ouch on the Leaf comparison with Russell...but that is something to think about.
Not a fan of ND, but let Weis have a chance to coach his recruits picked for his system. Callahan at NU looks now to be getting his players up to Lincoln and his offense has started to come around.
Gotta love the ND haters. This team was overrated yes. But their problems all year long have been 1) defense and 2) weak offensive line play. No QB is going to do anything when the offensive line isn't playing well. Isn't that why the great Peyton Manning threw his oline under the bus last year when Pittsburgh beat Indy in the playoffs? Also, when you're defense is weak and you have to play catch-up all game, play calling becomes predictable and its easy for the opposing defense to constantly apply pressure on the QB.
But as a ND person, yes they were overrated and didn't deserve to be in the BCS. But they weren't the only team to start the year off ranked so high and not live up to expectations. You can't argue much about last years BCS team because they had a valid arguement to be there. This year was a different story.
And yes there is a difference between Willingham and Weis. Willingham in his 10 win season did it with defense and special teams, his offenses were inept and painful to watch. Those defenses were Bob Davies'. At least right now with Weis there's hope for improvement. With Willingham it was the opposite.
Irrefutable argument of why your 'Oregon State' rule regarding USC's final ranking is silly.
USC 50, Arkansas 14. Florida 38, Arkansas 28. What? Arkansas got better during the season? Guess what... so did Oregon State.
And Rafe, did Louisville stop being a 1-loss BCS conference team sometime when you weren't looking?
Notre Dame will not join the Big 10 people. IF they join any conference it will be the Big East because that's where all their other teams are.
I've been on the "Notre Dame is overrated" bandwagon all season long. And now that I've once again been validated, I have an announcement to make:
I resolve to stop hating Notre Dame. Notre Dame wants you to be emotional about them, whether you hate or love them. I resolve to no longer play that game. From now on, I will be MEH to Notre Dame.
I now count 2 people who are not impressed with VY. Cmfrost and that idiot Merril Hoge. Frost the Titans D was one of the worst in the NFL this year and although they made stops when they needed to they still gave up tons of yards.
VY is only going to improve as a passer. Unlike the Falcons the Titans coaching staff will not try to force VY to become a drop back passer and will design the offense around his strengths.
Merril Hoge still continues to amaze me in his ineptitude. There is an article in the Nashville paper today that he would have voted VY 4th behind, Bush, Hester and Colston. He said VY only won the award because of the Buffalo and Houston games. I think someone should ask Merril if he watched VY lead that 21 point comeback against the G-Men. I would like to know why Merril seems to have it out for VY.
As for the game last night if Russell comes out I think he has a legit shot to be the #1 pick. Oakland loves the vertical passing game and Russell has a much stronger arm than Quinn. I still do not understand why people think Quinn is such a great QB. I have not been impressed with his arm strength. On the interception that was overturned it looked like he put everything into that ball and it was only a 35 yard pass. How is he going to throw the 15 yard out when Champ Bailey is covering the guy he is throwing to?
NDYanksFan...where are you? That's what I thought.
Can we all agree that end of season rankings, unless you are #1, are an even dumber thing to debate than preseason or midseason rankings? Seriously, with the BCS nothing matters unless you are #1. It is about retarded to argue over who might be 2-10. Too many "Well this team beat this team so... " scenarios.
I think Russell and Quinn are both good quarterbacks with "high upside" potential in the NFL, but the best quarterback in college football right now is Colt Brennan. I still think his stats are way overblown because of the type of offense he plays in. But, having seen him in person, I couldn't be more impressed with any college quarterback I have seen in a long time. He has a strong arm, is very accurate, and he makes excellent reads.
Maybe Hawaii will get their wish and all of this Russell/ Quinn comparison for 1-2 in the draft will get him to stay around another year. Then his 60 touchdown passes will be as unbreakable of a record as LdT's scoring record this year. But I suspect that the actual talent evaluators will rank Brennan highly, in spite of what the rest of us think about Russell....
I'll get the ball rolling for old times' sake.
Stud: JaMarcus
Dud: BCS Voters for over-ranking ND AGAIN.
Stud: Willingham looks better every year.
Stud: Arenas
Duds: Miami
Studs: New Orleans football fans are livin' large this year.
It's easier to win in the SEC in terms of actual coaching, because you only have to prepare for about 5 games a year. And since the Dolphins were in the AFC East with lil' Bill, it's way easier to win in the SEC.
I think the Raiders are better off drafting an O-lineman and then getting Leftwich in the offseason.
What's the difference between Notre Dame football and Princess Diana?
Notre Dame gets killed AFTER they come out of the tunnel.
I figure it's ok to tell Princess Di jokes now...enough time as surpassed.
Brennan may be good but the problem with him may be an NFL team's hesitation to draft a guy from a gimmick offense like the run and shoot (remember Andre Ware).
Notre Dame may be overrated, but who else should have played in this game? ND was the best ranked BCS team available left. The only other teams that might have been in that spot were teams like WVU, Rutgers, or Virginia Tech. I know the BCS ranking includes the biased Poll rankings, but ND was ranked better than those teams in the (supposedly unbiased) computer rankings too.
I think Dans' comment about Weis and the Giants is a good one.
All the pieces are there in NY, they just need a decent coach to keep them healthy and manage their egos. This is something Weis could do, since he handles the ND boosters so well and he's from the Belicheck lineage.
"Notre Dame may be overrated, but who else should have played in this game?"
Wisconsin(stupid rule allowing only 2 teams from a conference)
Arkansas(2nd in SEC...over LSU, even though they lost to them)
Auburn(beat LSU)
Teams that would be favored over Notre Dame: Virginia Tech, Rutgers, West Virginia
Is that enough teams?
Oh, and VY getting the Offensive ROY is absurd. Maurice Jones-Drew should have taken it in a landslide.
pootie...
stirring the much for b10 and you represent the sec??? what is the SEC's record against b10 teams in bowls this season? 2-0, soon to be 3-0.
Also, it is one of my favorite things to see ND lose and also to get embarrassed on national tv like they did last night. Cant believe teams like Rutgers and wv had to watch it at home and laugh. even Wisconsin.
BCS+ND=complete frauds
Is there a Bloggie award for best SEC biased blog? I am not a genius, but don't all BCS conferences have the same lkelihood of producing a BCS champion, or playing in a BCS bowl? How about this, they change the title of the SEC to the BCS? Then the SEC champ is automatically the BCS champ. Give me a freakin' break.
Notre Dame will NEVER EVER join a conference...until they have a reason to do so. Somebody on here will get the numbers for us, but when a school gets invited to a BCS bowl you it gets paid MILLIONS (20? 30 mil maybe?) of dollars. However, something like half that money gets taken off the top immediately and distributed to the rest of the conference (revenue sharing). That's why there is the rule about only two teams from a conference can get BCS bids. It has nothing to do with the "fairness" of over representation, but all about the distribution of money and revenue sharing.
Since Notre Dame is not in a conference, they keep all that money themselves. As long as ND goes to a BCS bowl every handful of years it will never make any sense (financially) for them to join a conference.
On an unrelated note: Some people have already mentioned...the Big 12 refs were horrible! Terrible calls throughout the entire game. They didn't even know what was challengable and what wasn't.
Also, the FOX telecast was abysmal. I recognize this is their first year doing it, but they've known that they were going to be showing these games for a long time now. The replays, the cut aways, the shots, the angles were all terrible. And of course, what were Howie Long and Terry Bradshaw doing in the booth? I realize FOX doesn't do college football during the regular season and doesn't have college commentators, but last night was a joke. Honestly, I found it painful.
@ futurelegend
your quote
"I think someone should ask Merril if he watched VY lead that 21 point comeback against the G-Men. I would like to know why Merril seems to have it out for VY."
Did you watch that game? VY lead the team on one drive that had to go more then 45 yards to bring the team back.
The TD to bring the score to 21-7 was started with good field position on the Giants 45 after an interception by the defense
The second TD making the score 21-14 was set up by a punt return giving the Titans the ball on the Giants 36
The third TD to make it 21-21 was the only drive in the comeback that had to go the length of the field.
And the winning field goal was set up by another Interception and the Titans move the ball 18 yards after that to kick the winning field goal.
Oops.
yep, forgot about Louisville. Forgot about the entire Orange Bowl actually.
VY had a great 2/3rds of a season. Relatively speaking when compared to most 1st year QBs.
But I would always lean towards players who have an impact all season long.
On that note, did any rookies have an impact all season long? Yes. I don't know if he got votes, but Mangold from the Jets would have been my pick.
Dan - I just wanted to say that I am ashamed to still be an ESPN Page 2 reader...now that they have replaced the Quickie with the (pitiful) A.M. Jump. Not only is it a blatant rip-off of your column, but the writing/layout/humor is not even close.
I voted for you, will spread the word...and hope that you win!
Thanks!
twa -
bowl games do not indicate the strength of a conference. i have said that before on here and laid out my reasons. that is why the SEC SEC, etc. post was made in jest, after last night's LSU pasting of ND. if you want to keep on believing that the big 10 was better this year, go right ahead
Yes I watched the game and although the field may have been short VY still needed to make plays for them to score.
I know a lot of VY's detractors are not crazy about his passing ability and that he is just going to end up as a bigger Mike Vick. However, unlike Vick VY has a great coaching staff. They will find ways to develop the offense around him and Norm Chow is one of the best QB teachers in all of football. I think he will be a much improved passer next year that it will surprise many people.
I still am curious as to what VY did to Merril Hoge to warrant the amount of criticism that he continues to get from that guy.
As for rookies who made an impact for the whole season.
you would have to look at:
Addai
Maroney - other then the 2 games he missed due to injury
Bush
Colston
Jones-Drew
I am not sure how you vote VY the worst rated Starting QB in the NFL the ROY over any of those players it is a joke.
It going to be the same joke if they give Brees the MVP over LdT.
So far the only thing the AP voters got right was the comeback player of the year going to Pennington. And why is that write when people say Brees should won that award, well let see what was Brees coming back from, off season shoulder surgery after he played all 16 games the year before.
Welcome to the Clemson bandwagon.
Forget Air Force (actually, don't, because they're awesome), UNLV is amazing...wait until March.
And the Heat aren't making the playoffs this year. It's silly to think otherwise.
why is the sec better than the b10? because lsu beat nd or because the sec is 0-2 against b10 teams?
the only way to really look at conferences and see who is better than the other is to look at head to head match ups. this year the sec has lost to b10 teams 2x in the bowl season. lsu, while a very good team beat an extremely overrated ND last night. Ark lost to wisky while tenn lost to PSU.
sure we can argue would lsu beat osu, i would say no. but dont pound your sec chest because lsu beat a wildly overrated and undeserving ND in a bcs home game.
VY isn't going to be a "taller version of Vick." He doesn't have the arm or the legs. VY is going to be a "taller version of Kordell Stewart."
Sorry.
CM yes VY had the worst QB rating among starters but you cannot look at stats as the sole indicator of what they did on the field.
He was 8-5 as a starter on a team whose defense gave up over 400 points. He led them to 4 4th Quarter comebacks. Sure stats look nice on paper but they do not tell the whole story of what someone especially a 1st Year QB does for a team.
Matt I hope you are fucking joking comparing VY to Kordell. The Vick comparisons I can see but Kordell give me a fucking break.
Vince Young is either a bigger Michael Vick, a smaller Kordell Stewart, a more mobile Byron Leftwitch, a poor-man's Randall Cunningham, gritty like Steve McNair, a talented version of Akili Smith, doesn't have Donovan McNabb's arm, is significantly better than Aaron Brooks, is a non-cocaine addicted Quincy Carter, less-injury prone Duante Cullpepper, a darker Charlie Batch, a younger Warren Moon, has one less Super Bowl than Doug Williams...
Did I forget anyone?
Wisconsin had a great year, the Big 10 is a great conference. I don't think anyone is disputing that. I do think some Big 10 vs SEC debaters are arguing about different things about which conference is the best. I don't know who the best is. If you look at Bowl showdowns as the end all be all of the better conference, than this year, it looks like the Big 10 was better at the top. But if you are so focused on Bowl results you can't not acknowledge Michigan and LSU.
I think there are a lot of other people who think about the toughness of a division as a whole (not only as the teams at the top). That's why I think the SEC is so tough. I think there are more teams at the "top" of the conference battling to knock each other off. Maybe that means the best Big 10 teams are better than the best SEC teams, maybe not. But the way I'm thinking about it is that the SEC teams are so competitive at the top of the conference that to win it is a lot tougher.
Wisconsin had a great year. They lost to Mich. They didn't play OSU (although I don't think you'd find too many people saying they would have beat them). I don't understand how #6 Wisconsin beating #12 Arkansas validates the Big 10 and we all know once and for all that the big 10 is the better confrence. Isn't the #6 teams supposed to beat #12 team?
Can't we just say that THIS YEAR the Big 10 had better teams? Or you know we could actually wait for the National Championship game.
I think Ohio St. is gonna win, btw...but I wouldn't be suprised to UF pull it off.
How about this one for all the VY haters. Vince Young is the first Vince Young
Just for the hell of it.
My ROY Ballot if I had a vote
1. Jones-Drew
2. Colston
3. Addai
4. Bush
5. Maroney
My MVP Ballot
1. LdT
2. Brees
3. Brady
4. Manning
5. Urlacher
from espn.com
LT + TDs + 14-2 = MVP
When the star of the NFL's best team wins the rushing title and smashes the TD record, the MVP becomes an easy choice. LaDainian Tomlinson ran away with the award today, getting 44 of the 50 first-place votes.
Final MVP vote tally
LdT - 44
Brees - 4
Manning - 2
come on, no comment on the Vince Young comparisons...that was funny...you guys need to lighten up, I always laugh when people can't see past skin color when comparing an athletes career to someone else. (see Adam Morrision NBA)
VY has a G-R-E-A-T coach: Fisher is top 3. That bodes well for his future. No matter what happened this year, the next 2 should be the indicators if he'll become an accurate QB. Almost all of the (typically thought of) great QBs struggled with a 50-something completion percentage in their first year playing (as did VY). The greats usually picked it up in their second year (I actually did a bit of research!) and third year. However, the only thing that will raise VY to that status is the coach and team. Every "great" QB has had an amazing team to support him. We'll see.
Notre Dame has always been favored, but it wasn't always that bad since they held themselves to higher standards (academically). Now that Weis is "bending" those standards, Notre Dame needs to be held to the same selection criteria as everyone else. When you lose 9 straight bowls games it is a sign that you are perennially overrated.
Gary: I think people are still in shock over the Princess Di comment: still trying to figure out how to respond.
I'll be happy to respond:
HHHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
See, it's funny, because it didn't happen to me.
Yeah, I was thrown off by that comment...
that joke was lamer than FDR's legs...What too soon?
a less-world-traveled Rohan Davey?
that was pretty funny....
and why AREN'T any black players ever compared to Larry Bird?
This is a shame...
Simmons will be crushed
Hey... helps if I include the link.
I'm a dumbass. I freely admit that.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/01/04/tv.the.oc.canceled.ap/index.html
Hey, Bid D, was that link cut-off?
VY won the award because he has "it."
By now, I believe "it" means "media mancrush."
VY = Favre + Vick
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!
What do Pink Floyd and Dale Earnhardt have in common?
Their last hit was The Wall.
ssssssssssssss...too soon on that one too?
Remember me guys?
We've been wondering about you, manningham!
>>Notre Dame will not join the Big 10 people. IF they join any conference it will be the Big East because that's where all their other teams are. >>
Ummm, based on that logic, isn't that a little like saying Penn State should have joined the Big East instead...or was it the Atlantic-10 at the time?
During the recent down years in Happy Valley (sigh), I did some wishful hypothesizing about what that might have been like and discovered that the student populations at the Big East schools are a quarter of what a good portion of the Big 10/11. Pardon the obvious on my delayed-reaction part, but that's gotta factor in somehow. Insert Penn State grad joke here: _____.
Oh, yeah, those exclusive NBC contracts make Touchdown Jesus real happy, too, fo' sho'.
Take this for what its worth, but running a search on "penn state big east" shows that Penn State applied and was rejected from the Big East in 82... probably why they joined the Big 10.
And I really doubt that Big 10 would consider adding another football team because that would give them the magic 12 and thus they MIGHT be forced to have a conference championship game and split into divisions. I say might because I know you need 12 for a title game, but don't know if its true that if you have 12 you must have a title game.
@ solomonrex:
No, it's all there. Unfortunately, stupid Blogger doesn't auto line-break a link.
Here it is
Re: VY....
If all that matters is wins and losses, uh... Ben Roethlisberger had 27 wins and a Super Bowl title before he lost his 5th game. VY has 8 wins and no playoffs.
VY is *never* going to be a good pro QB with that throwing motion. It's just not gonna happen. I shouldn't have compared him to Kordell earlier - at least Kordell could occasionally hit the open guy. VY just sort of aims in the general vicinity, flings it, and prays. That is, when he's not throwing it directly into the ground 5 feet in front of the intended receiver.
Whether the Raiders draft Quinn or Russell, either will struggle since the team has a weak O-line. Anybody else remember the Raiders giving up like 78 sacks on opening night?
Russell has the million dollar arm and the 10 cent head. I'm still not sold on Quinn either. Let the pre-draft hype begin!
The Raiders need to address their offensive line, obviously... but I think they'll be a little gunshy after the Robert Gallery debacle.
If Vince Young isn't that good, then why do you clownboots spend so much time trying to prove the point?
There's no need for us "clownboots" to prove how bad of a QB Vince Young is, or will be. He proves it every time he steps on the field.
VY: 51.5% completion rating, 66.7 passer rating, 6.2 Yards per Attempt.
Even Eli Manning's stats look good in comparison: 57.7% / 77.0 / 6.2
Wow, the ultimate insult. Being told that "You make Eli Manning look good..."
I think VY is going to get it. Eventually. Let's remember guys - he's got 13 career starts under his belt and is all of 23 years old. Let's give him another season or two before we jump off the bandwagon.
It's not like Mike Vick, who has had six years as a starter (five, if you discount the injury season) and still hasn't put it all together.
What's up with Manningham dropping balls left and right vs USC? awful.
The odds are against VY panning out because MOST quarterbacks don't pan out.
Really, if his last name wasn't "Manning" would any of you project him to be in the League in 3 years?
The comparison to Big Ben is a stupid one. Ben went to a Pittsburgh team that had many parts in place for him to be successful. VY went to a team that had posted 9 total wins in 2 years because they had to blow up the team because of the cap.
I admit that he needs to work on his passing but VY is a competitor and loves to prove people like you Mattie wrong about his ability to QB in the NFL. He has a great developer of QBs in Norm Chow and one of the best head coaches in the league.
I understand that you are a hater Mattie but give it break the dude is going to be very successful in the NFL. As Bobby Knight said "Sit back and enjoy it."
Matt are those Eli stats from this year or from his rookie year? If they are from this year how can you compare a QB who has been in the league 3 years to a guy who should be a Sr. in college.
ESPN's Todd McShay picks Florida to win the game because the 50-day layoff will affect Ohio State and they will be unprepared for Florida's speed.
....
So a long layoff only affects one team? And McShay is a believer of the myth that all the speed is in the South?
So annoying for 'experts' to fall into silly beliefs like that.
Ohio State 28
Florida 27
(T. Smith leads OSU to a last minute touchdown at the end of game)
First off, Big Ben went to a team that was 6-10 the previous year, and sat behind Tommy Freakin' Maddox until midway through the 2nd game. They barely beat Oakland (24-21 I think) in week 1 that year, then got blown out by the Ravens. After that? 14-1 that year, 13-3 (including playoffs) the next year. He's the reason they turned things around. I think the comparison is valid.
As for Eli, those were his 3rd year stats. His rookie year, he only played in 9 games - VY played in 15.
But regardless.. we all admit how bad of a QB Eli is this year. What's wrong with comparing him to VY as-is? If you're still going on the "W-L" argument, the Giants are in the playoffs, and Tennessee is sitting at home.
I'm not sold on Vince Young turning out to be great. Mainly because QBs that can't throw straight don't usually end up being that good in the NFL.
Of course I could be wrong.
But you are still comparing a 3rd year QB in Eli to a rookie QB in VY. If anything it makes VY look better that in 1 year his stats are comparable to Eli's 3rd year stats.
As for the Steelers they were 6-10 the year before the drafted Ben but the year before they were 10-5-1 and made the playoffs. So like I said they had the pieces in place for Ben to succeed. The Titans were 4-12 last year and 5-11 two years ago. They also lost all of their veteran players because of the salary cap and this year were one of the youngest teams in the NFL and with all of that working against him VY still almost led them to the playoffs.
It's amazing that in the opening week of the playoffs for the NFL, people are arguing Big 10 v SEC and whether Vince Young is any good. Big D, as a Pats fan myself, what's your take on the game this weekend? And is it just me or is it especially hard this year to see any wild card winners pulling off a super bowl win or even appearance...
Also, doing a fantasy playoffs pool. If you had to pick one QB, who would you take, taking into consideration how far that QB's team will go and his stats in those games.
@ bottlerocket: (and anyone else who's interested)
My fantasy QB picks would be Brady & Hasslebeck. Both look to advance, both should put up good numbers.
As for thoughts on this week's games, well, I'd love to write them here, but then you'd have no reason to click over to my page later tonight, now would you? :)
(Shameless plug Alert! Shameless Plug Alert!)
Wow you're thinking Seahawks in the NFC? Those banged up corners scare me in that Cowboys game, no matter how poorly they've been playing. Was thinking of going Brees or Brady...
I really hope the officials in the BCS title game are better than the ones for the Sugar Bowl. I'd hate for one team to get screwed out of a championship because of awful officiating. (See OSU over Miami)
Now everyone sees what I had to put up watching in the Big 12 this year.
As for VY, he'll be fine. I don't see many people complaining this year about Philip Rivers and his unorthodox delivery.
I am going to do a shameless plug for my crappy blog. Yeah that will really get you to read it but I did put out my playoff predicitions for the first round yesterday.
http://cmfost.blogspot.com/
since it is playoff fantasy you need to pick a QB at least to start who will play this weekend. And I would go with Hasselbeck due to the Cowboys poor pass coverage followed by Brady as a second choice and then Manning Third only because I Peyton is going to be playing from behind and will have to throw a lot.
Wouldn't touch Manning. Either Manning.
If the Chiefs run at will, Peyton might only have six or seven possessions to work with.
And Eli, well, Eli's Eli. That's all you really need to know.
Maybe I didn't explain it correctly. The way it works is you pick a fantasy team for the entire playoffs, so the strategy is to pick good players who will play the most games. So, even though Brees isn't playing this weekend, I like the Saints to go to the Super Bowl, so Brees would be a good pick. Its pretty interesting and tough to choose when you go through the players and teams this year.
I'm an ex-B'ham resident and wanted to pass along a sample of the insanity that is college football in the state of Alabama.
The same board of trustess governs both UAT (The University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa) and UAB (University of Alabama in Birmingham). As it so happens, both schools were conducting head coaching searches (one was a bit less advertised than the other). However, a couple of weeks ago, the UAB search committee had zeroed in on Jimbo Fisher (a hot commoditiy that has been on several head coaching search lists). This was creating quite a bit of buzz about UAB football in B'ham. They had a tentative deal in place for $600,000 annually with two local B'ham businessmen pledging half of this amount. The searching committe had to cancel the plane trip to Baton Rouge for the final negotiations because the board of trutees nixed the deal due to 'fiscal concerns' with the amount of the contract.
Note that UAB has Mike Davis as a basketball coach (Ex-UAT player) and he is payed $600,000 annually without, to my knowledge, any boosters covering any portion of his salary.
UAB then hires Neil Callaway as the head coach at $365,000 per year with performance incentives. Again, to my knowledge, no booster is covering any protion of this salary. Neil Callawy is an ex-UAT player and assistant under the very late Bear Bryant. Callaway was the offensive coordinator at UGA. However, at UGA the head coach calls the offensive plays. So does Callaway at least coach the 'skill' players? No, he is the offensive line coach.
He also happens to have a recent DUI on his record. The board of trustees dumped Mike Price after he got drunk and made a bad decision, but it seems that they had short term memory loss on Callaway's account.
How did Neil Callaway get this job? It just so happens that the board of trustees is predominatly UAT alums with one Paul Bryant, Jr. the lead dog. It was all about who you know.
There is nothing about this that doesn't stink. UAB was generating buzz with a 'name' (for a smaller school anyway) candidate and the trustees put a damper on it and then hired a good old boy that will keep them where they belong (mediocore in Conference USA).
They passed it off as fiscal responsiblity, then bascially paid another candidate more money out the University's pocket. Two weeks later they approve $4 million per year to Nick Saban to coach blessed UAT.
Sorry about the long post, but I had to create an account just to get that off my chest. One other thing to note is that UAB is the main bread winner for the universities under the Alabama board of trustees control. UAB is a medical school with great facilities (think Dr. Andrews performing Tommy John surgerys).
bottlerocket, If that is the case go with Jeff Garcia, he will be consistent and he will probably playing every round until at least the NFC Championship game
For the playoff fantasy team, you're going to have to go with Jeff Garcia.
(Once you stop laughing, read on.)
First, the I like the Eagles to go to the Super Bowl. That's 4 games in which to accumulate stats. Even if they only get to the championship game, that's 3 games - the same as, say, Drew Brees or Rex Grossman would play if THEY went to the Super Bowl.
Secondly, Garcia's a mortal lock for at least 2 TDs a game the next two weeks (home v. Giants, at New Orleans). The G-Men and Saints can't stop the pass.
Lastly, you never know when Westbrook is going to take a 5 yard screen and turn it into an 80-yard TD. If that happens, Garcia's over 300 yards for the game.
The other candidates for week one:
Matt Hasselbeck (second best bet, since HS QBs could throw on Dallas' secondary)
Eli Manning (Third-best pick. 653 yards, 3 TD, 3 INT, 2 Fumbles vs. Eagles this year. Good bet for big yardage, but might get shut out of the endzone)
Peyton Manning (limited possessions v. KC's run game)
Trent Green (could be yanked for Huard, will be running the ball 50 times)
Chad Pennington (arm may detach from body at any second)
Tom Brady (the Jets did a good job against him in their two games this year: 473 yards, 2 TD passes, 2 INTs, 2 Fumbles, 1 Fumble lost, -1 yards rushing)
Tony Romo (defenses have figured him out)
What I find so amusing about all the Saban critics (hello E**N.com writers and analysts) is that so many of us have been in that changing jobs scenario where we our sh*tting our pants to leave our comfy post for uncharted waters (and often more money).
Tell me those writers who used to make a paycheck worthy of a bus boy at Denny's for their passion to report cannot empathize with Saban. He was a premier college coach, he wants to be in the college atmosphere again, so let him follow his passion.
Who cares what he tells you a month ago? The big criticism would be if he left 'Bama to make an NFL return (note: no NFL owner would take the risk anyway now).
Interesting take Matt, thanks...Anyone else have a hard time trusting these Eagles? This whole Jeff Garcia re-emergence is incredible. Is their defense that good that Garcia only has to be good enough to win in the NFC?
Also, was thinking the other night, has there ever been any circumstance of a QB controversy like the one that will happen if Garcia wins the Eagles a Super Bowl. The Brady situation wasn't controversy bc everyone knew Bledsoe was a goner. They can't possibly do that with McNabb. Only thing that comes to mind is the Hostetler run...
even though this will not happen how do you think Bledsoe will feel if the Cowboys go on to win the Super Bowl. I think we would have a new phrase for the dicitionary
Bledsoed - To be replaced as the starting QB and have your team win the Super Bowl because of it.
Vince Young is the ROY? Did I miss something? His QB rating was 66.7, and he threw 13 INTs to 12 TDs. You win as a team and lose as a team, VY does not deserve such credit with such terrible numbers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof07/news/story?id=2717705
On ESPN...a story on HOF polling. The shocker? More people would vote for Barry Bonds than for Mark McGuire right now.
Yikes
Ouch Jhawkjim...
I know that everyone only ever remembers the last bad call, but that OSU - Miami title game did not involve a team that got screwed. Officials made calls they thought were right. The game came down to two calls (why the first is never remembered, i don't know)
-Chris Gamble catches a pass inbounds on 3rd down. Refs call it incomplete (out of bounds). OSU punts, good Miami return leads to tying FG.
-4th down pass to Gamble in endzone, contact between Miami CB and Gamble. The flag comes in 3 seconds after play ends. Ohio State gets ball at two and gets tying field goal.
If the first play had been correct, OSU would have been able to run the clock down. So no OT.
They balanced out....especially since both calls only led to the teams TYING.
In the 2nd OT, Miami got the ball on the 2 yard line after a shady PI call in the endzone as well. Difference? They couldn't get 2 yards in 4 plays.
Anyways, the nature of Florida and Ohio State, I think the skill of both teams will make the refs an afterthought.
If the Eagles actually beat the Chargers or Ravens or whoever in the Super Bowl, there won't be a QB controversy in Philly because hell will freeze over and demons will consume the Earth with their fiery vengeance.
But actually, no, Donovan would stay in Philly because he's mu-u-u-uch younger than Garcia and a fan favorite. A few teams who run the West Coast offense might try to trade for Garcia, and I think he'd want the opportunity to start again, but I just don't see Philly letting a quality, proven backup leave.
Garcia gives the Iggles the best chance for success: he doesn't kill drives with poor throws. McNabb would consistently send fliers over open receivers on 3rd-and-3. McNabb has a career 58.2% completion rate: Garcia has 60.9%. McNabb's only season at over 60% was TO's full season in PHI. However, Garcia's stats with TO in SF: 61.4% 23TD/11INT 312RU-YD/4TD avg. McNabb with TO in PHI: 61.9% 23TD/8INT 137RU-YD/2TD avg.
Good Call Rafael. The Jet's Mangold should have been mentioned in the NFL ROY voting but they only give first place votes out. I think they should rank their top 3 or 5 players so that some guys who won't win can still get honorable mention. The voting can be found at
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2718595&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Actually Garcia ia a free agent at the end of the season, So a Super bowl win means big bucks for him.
What the hell is wrong with you, Dan? You keep bringing up the "Oregon State Factor" to explain why Boise should be ranked ahead of USC...but they had another common opponent, Oklahoma. USC easily beat the Sooners, but Boise had to go to OT. So common opponents really can't determine which team is better.
Four points in return:
1) Brady Quinn is not so much overrated as imprecisely rated. He makes good throwing decisions (rarely does he throw to the wrong receiver), but his passes aren't the most accurate. Also, it's difficult to gauge what he would look like with a real offensive line, since Notre Dame's is terrible. Overall, I'd put him behind Brennan, Russell, and even Smith as NFL prospects. But that doesn't mean he's awful.
2) The BCS is designed to create interesting (and profitable) matchups. Notre Dame meets both criteria. Until there is a playoff, ND will get invited anytime they qualify because bowls make money off of them. And who can blame them? Anyone who saw the empty seats at the Orange Bowl understands the bowl organizers' point of view. Let's all move on.
3) For good reading on how Weis is doing pretty darn well with the talent left in the well, do some reading at the Blue Gray Sky. Suffice it to say, Willingham's recruiting didn't exactly leave the cupboards full, especially at both lines and in the secondary. Which is why ND's six losses over the last two years have come when teams have burned us deep on offense and blitzed consistently on defense. You can only work with what you have. Thus, I don't think we can really evaluate whether or not Weis can win the big one at ND until we see his recruits play. For now, we know he can at least get to 9-10 wins with someone else's players.
4) Considering that it lost to, arguably, three of the top five teams of the country ... let's not all go pissing out pants about how terrible ND is. Remember that they beat ACC runner-up GT on the road (who oft-praised West Virginia could only beat by a field goal on a neutral field), and pounded underrated Penn State at home. They will fall to around #15 ... and you know what, that's probably about right.
Aha... so Garcia will definitely try the market, then. One last shot at being a starter. Where might he end up? Not Chicago - wrong system. How about Detroit, with Mike Martz?
ken in starkvegas,
I currently live in Birmingham, and am an Auburn fan/grad, so please do not mistkae what I say for agreeing with Alabama shelling out that kind of money for a football coach. But there are several points in your post that are way off base.
First of all, yes, UAB and UAT are both run by the same Board of Trustees, but that has little bearing on the hiring practices of both. UAB must show fiscal responsibility when hiring a coach because it is a program that has been hemoraging money for the last several years. They are averaging around 15K per game in attendance and dont have the means to waste serious money on a coach. Alabama packs out a 90K seat stadium for 8 home games a year so they can afford the $4 mil for $aban.
Also, the UAB Hospital System is a not-for-profit organization therefore the monies that they generate must be put back into research and facilities for the hospitals, not to paying coaches at UAT- or UAB for that matter.
www.sonsofkc.blogspot.com
Wow, what a scandal on those baseballs. I think this could be bigger than steroids, because it comes from the top if it's true.
ND will never join a conference until they lose that NBC contract AND start being ranked appropriately. Why? Not less money--fewer BCS games (ok, and less money). They'd never make the BCS cut in a normal conference. ND fans can argue that they are at times underrated by us fans, but they are totally overrated by the people in power.
Brady Quinn can't be picked first. Seriously--can anyone picture him in a Raiders uniform? I can picture him losing twelve games in a Lions uniform, though.
Re: Mike Tice. Sounds like reality show time!
whocares,
If UAB could get a coach that won ballgames, then the community would support it (ie come to the games). Everybody loves a winner. Hell, Troy is getting more attendance located in the boonies than UAB gets in B'ham because they win ballgames.
The 'fiscal concerns' were bogus as Jimbo Fisher's contract with the booster pledges was going to cost the University system less money out of pocket than the coach they hired.
The comment on who generates money back to the school's budget underscores the problem with representation on the board of trustees. I think most public schools are non-profit organizations.
Most of my rant is ripped from content in Kevin Scarbinsky's articles in The Birmingham News following the coaching search fiasco.
http://www.al.com/sports/birminghamnews/kscarbinsky.ssf
OK, this Robert Smith guy is exactly right. This Notre Dame team, from a talent standpoint, had "Gator Bowl" written all over it. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. I attended a Gator Bowl a few years ago where ND was barely competitive--at least this team is better then that. But yes, their branding puts them in better games than their talent would have them earn, and so they'll keep losing until: (1) that ND mystique goes away or (2) until they actually get National Championship caliber again.
In other words--it'll be a long time before ND wins another bowl in anything other than a big upset.
Yes, USC whooped OU and BSU needed overtime to beat OU, but they were different OUs.
USC >> OreU.
BSU > OklU > OreU.
But OreU+Refs > OklU.
Also,
BSU > OSU
OSU > OreU.
Beavers are better than Ducks, but what about Platypi?
RANDY JOHNSON TO D'BACKS
With LDT winning the MVP and one could argue that he has been the most dominant Offensive player since he was drafted in 2001 it always baffles me that he was the 5th overall player chosen.
Here are the 4 players picked ahead of him:
1-Michael Vick, Atlanta
2-Leonard Davis, Arizona
3-Gerard Warren, Cleveland
4-Justin Smith, Cincinnati
2 of those guys (Vick and Smith) are decent starters. Warren is on his 2nd team and you can ask Edge what he thinks of running behind Leonard Davis.
I know that Atlanta traded up to get the 1st pick that year so they could have Vick but does anyone remember a knock against LDT coming out of college other than he played at TCU?
How can you say that Weis stands no chance of winning a title at Notre Dame? He hasn't even had his recruits come in yet. He went in there with Willingham's players and did what Ty could only do one year, and that is win. In a few years Notre Dame will be competing once again. Everybody just wants an excuse to hate on them.
This was a phenomenal day of Comments, everyone. I appreciate this extension of the conversation more than you know. I enjoyed every single one. What I like most is that we can disagree, but you've gotta bring your sound reasoning to back it up. I'm sorry I only posted once today, but I'll try to make up for it tomorrow. -- Dan
Can we please stop saying...
Team A beat Team B. Team B beat Team C. Therefore Team A will beat Team C.
This is not math, and therefore not an accurate indicator of whose best. By this logic Notre Dame is better than USC because Notre Dame beat UCLA and USC lost to them. We all saw that USC is better than Notre Dame.
I'm pretty sure the only concern with Tomlinson was the TCU thing.
I remember seeing this game years ago and was convinced LT would be awesome.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/1999/11/20/tomlinson_record_ap/
seriously...406 yards???? That's playstation or xbox not real life.
hmm, link didn't show up
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/1999/11/20/tomlinson_record_ap/
damn... oh well
the rest is
1999/11/20/tomlinson_record_ap/
@ futurelegendvinceyoung:
Just imagine if the Cards had grabbed LdtT over Davis... Obviously, Vick was going to Atlanta (hell, they basically traded the top 2 2006 MVP finalists for him), and Cleveland was destined to blow their draft choice.
What's even more impressive... of the top five teams in that draft, three have won their division at least once since - the other two have combined for exactly one season of more than six wins (Cleveland - 9-7 in 2002).
Talk about parity...
P.S. Bill Cowher Resigns... Whizzenhunt or Whipple in '07?
I thought LdT's size was an issue too?
one of those lame "can he handle the rigors of the NFL" reasons for marking him down.
I'd prefer Grimm for my Steelers.
Not quite true Bid D.. They traded the #1 Pick (M. Vick) and got in return a #3 pick (CB-Tay Cody Fl. State) a #2 pick in 2002 (Reche Caldwell) and Tim Dwight. They took Brees with their own second round pick in 2001.
Either way it worked out much better for the Chargers
Whoops, obviously they got the #5 pick and took LT as well
good point b_washington, but if they had taken Vick, they obviously wouldn't have had a need for Brees. Therefore, by trading away the right to take Vick #1 and instead grabbing LdT, they also ensured than with their next pick, they would still need a QB i.e. Drew Brees.
It's kind of roundabout thinking, but no one ever accused me of being a great thinker.
New Whitlock on AOL:
http://sports.aol.com/whitlock/
nfl/_a/lets-face-it-entire-
league-should-shun/
20061228103009990001
By the way, if you think that link is a pain, try finding his commentary by visiting aol.com first. It shouldn't be this hard!
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