Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Tuesday 12/12 A.M. Quickie:
Devin Hester: The New Gale Sayers?

Devin Hester is the new Dante Hall: The Bears rookie return guy set a new NFL single-season record with his 6th return for a TD this season. And, more astonishing, it was his second of the night, a 42-27 Bears rout over the Rams.

Hester is the most potent offensive weapon the Bears have, which is saying something, considering he's a special teams player (but, then again, not saying much, given Rex Grossman and the otherwise iffy offense).

The real question is whether he'll be the only rookie to make the Pro Bowl -- for which he has now to be a lock. Is he a more deserving Rookie of the Year than Vince Young or Marques Colston? As the most effective player on the best team in the NFC, it's an argument.

NBA to go back to the old ball: This is the biggest news of the season (similar to the way the switch to the new ball was previously the biggest news of the season). It's a rare defeat for David Stern, but the bottom line is that he earns more goodwill – with players and fans -- by switching back than he does by trying to continue to prove he's smarter than everyone else with this ball idea. I think we'll look back on this three months of the "new" ball as the NBA's "XFL Moment." (I fully expect YaySports to print up "Free Orange Roundie!" T-shirts.)

Jerry Sloan won his 1,000th career game in style: With his Jazz extending their NBA-best record to 16-5 with a rout over the defending conference champ Mavs (including 31 and 11 from Boozer; seriously, WTF is he on this season?)

More signs Amare is back: Season-high 30 points last night in the Suns' win over the Magic, PHX's 11th straight win.

AI Trade Watch: After last night's 2-point loss to Portland (without AI, obvs – a difference that probably cost them the game), why wouldn't the Sixers throw in the towel, tank the rest of the season and promise fans that their intent is to re-build a new core around Top 2 draft prizes Greg Oden or Kevin Durant?

Freddy Adu traded from DC United to Real Salt Lake: If, in fact, Adu remains the biggest prospect (either for skills or marketing or both), I'm not sure why DC United would trade him. Maybe they know he's not long for MLS; I'm sure there's an EPL payday in his future.

So if you thought Jimmie Johnson's golf-cart injury sounded sort of sketchy (how do you get hurt while riding in a golf cart?), it is: Reportedly, he was sprawled across the TOP of the golf cart, which – indeed – is a good way of getting your ass flung off a golf cart.

College Hoops Top 25: I wonder if Air Force – one of two new teams to debut in this season's Top 25 (along with Notre Dame) – is for real. They've played a brutal schedule (mostly on the road) and have been successful doing it. Conference play in 2007 won't reveal as much as their non-conference schedule this fall. Tracking...

MLB Hot Stove: I predict that, despite reports of intractable problems, the Red Sox and Matsuzaka hammer out a deal by Thursday's deadline.

Fantasy Venting: You all know that I'm a fan of fantasy, but I am guided by the principle that everyone can/should play fantasy, but no one wants to hear about your team, specifically. We can talk about larger fantasy implications of a player's performance, but not the larger fantasy implications on your team. With that said, I have to vent: I scored the third-most points in my 14-team league, yet I finished tied for second-to-last. It's one of those seasons where you say: Why bother? Perhaps some of you can relate (or know someone in your league who can): Every league must have a "Hard-Luck Champion," who finishes with playoff-quality point totals but out of the actual playoffs bracket. The only solace? "Regression to the mean": If you can replicate Top 4 point-totals every season, you're bound to get the right week-to-week matchups to vault you into the playoffs. You hope.

-- D.S.

123 comments:

chipp said...

Why isn't Maurice Jones-Drew in the conversation for ROY? 2nd in rookie rushing to Addai with an awesome 6.1 YPC and 9 TDs plus he handles KOR (although no punt returns). Hester has the overall argument in the return game, but for a "team" Jones-Drew has given JAX the biggest influx of rejuvination (how else is Fred Taylor not hurt?).

marcomarco said...

If Jones-Drew is a consideration, Maroney surely has to be.

Hisjazziness said...

The Sixers can't pack it up now because of a little thing called the lottery my friend.

How terrible would it look if Billy King is sitting there in the middle of some May playoff game waiting for a top 2 pick to come (after sabotaging their season in DECEMBER) and a Pitino/Celtics/Duncan situation occurred?

Can't tank until AT LEAST February.

ChrTh said...

Packers making the playoffs update:

With the Rams defeat last night, the Packers are a step closer to being the surprise 6th Wild Card this season.

Here's the scenario (originally discussed and posted in the 12/11 comments section):
Week 14
Chicago beats Rams -- DONE!

Week 15
Green Bay beats Detroit
Eagles beat Giants
Cowboys beat Falcons
Steelers beat Panthers*

Week 16
Green Bay beats Minnesota
Saints beat Giants
Falcons beat Panthers*

Week 17
Green Bay beats Chicago
Eagles beat Falcons
Minnesota beats Rams**, ***
Saints beat Panthers*
Redskins beat Giants

*Panthers have to lose 2 of these 3 games. Doesn't actually matter which 2 they lose.

**There are other games that could have an effect; the Rams just need to lose 1 game, so a loss to either Oakland or Washington (Weeks 15 and 16) eliminates them. However, I'm going to stick with likelier victories.

***Even though the Packers own the tiebreaker with Minnesota, a Packers loss with a Vikings win could put the Vikings in the playoffs at 8-8 in this scenario, so the Vikings should be sufficiently motivated.

Mikepcfl said...

I'm not a big fan of talking fantasy sports on this blog, but since Dan brought it up...I can actually top Dan's fantasy season. Three years ago I was in an ESPN Fantasy Football League where my team led the team in points and had the fewest points scored against me...yet I came in dead last! I would win a game 130-40 and then lose the next week 51-50. I've never seen anything like it and I doubt I ever will.

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

Dan motherfuckin Tom Coughlin has cost me at least 2 games because he wants to use Jacobs instead of Tiki inside 10 yards. If the Giants fire Coughlin does Tiki stay?

CMFost said...

For the Second time in 3 years I am going into the Playoffs with the best record in my league for the second time in 3 years I know some injury will happen this week that will allow me to get into the final but give me no shot at winning the championship.

CMFost said...

My ROY ballot for the NFL

1. Jones-Drew
2. Addai
3. Colston
4. Hester
5. Maroney

CMFost said...

chrth - give it up the Packers are not going to the playoffs. You have a better chance of winning the lottery then you have of every single one of those things coming true.

CMFost said...

My guess is AI is a Celtis by tomorrow. With Al Jefferson being the centerpiece of the the trade.

Also let's all wish Boston Bruins Rookie Center Phil Kessel a speedy recovery from what one TV station here in Boston is reporting as testicular cancer.

CMFost said...

My guess on Matsuzaka is he is signed by tonight and in Boston tomorrow for his physical. The final deal being 4 years at 48-52 Million with 2 teams options for 15 million each

Big D said...

@ cmfost:

No Vince Young or Matt Leinart on your ROY ballot? Wow.

Personally, I've got my top five as follows:

1) VY
2) Jones-Drew
3) Colston
4) Maroney
5) Hester

CMFost said...

Nope, no VY or Leinart. I think they are both good players and I think if I went to a top 10 they would be in it but I think there teams need to be at least in contention to be considered for the award.

CMFost said...

Plus I have trouble giving a award to QB's that are rnaked 24th - leinart and 31st - VY in QB rating.

Yes, they have both helped there teams but they are not contenders.

ChrTh said...

You have a better chance of winning the lottery then you have of every single one of those things coming true.


Are you drunk? The odds of winning the lottery are one in several hundred million. The odds of this one scenario is roughly 1:1314, which ain't bad odds. And as noted, it's not the only scenario.

You're just bitter because you don't know how to have fun in a losing season.

ChrTh said...

"Devin Hester is the new Dante Hall"

Um, whatever happened to Dante Hall?

adam said...

Dan, Better analogy of the new ball would be comparing Coke with New Coke. Both products (old ball/old coke) had been around a long time with the new product (new ball/new coke) being a complete flop and going back to the old way in a short period. I know this dates me, but it had to be said.

NFL ROY
1. JOnes-Drew
2. YOung
3. Bush (if he sets record for receptions)
4. Colston (injuries have hurt him)
5. Hester

Top 10 picks are usually on crappy teams.. thus hard to say being on a winning team makes you a better candidate. W/out Young the Titans really SUCK!

CMFost said...

Chrth - actually since I am a patriots fan I am not bitter about a losing season since I know my team is going to the playoffs.

I was just commenting on how unbelievable you scenario seems and how unlikely it is to happen.

The one question I have is how to do you have so much time to devise this scenario?

ChrTh said...

@adam: do you know why New Coke happened?

They had done taste tests, and the New Coke formula absolutely destroyed Old Coke. However, they only tested the initial taste (ie take a sip and tell us which one tastes better)--they didn't account for the entire drinking experience. Classic marketing mistake.

Why they were testing a sweeter formula is a different question; obviously they were trying to attract Pepsi devotees (Pepsi is much sweeter than Coke--although it's funny how you don't really notice until you've stopped drinking one or the other and then try it again)...but when you're #1, why are you trying to emulate #2?

ChrTh said...


The one question I have is how to do you have so much time to devise this scenario?


It took 10 minutes. The mediocrity of the NFC plus the fact a lot of the playoff contenders play each other made the analysis pretty easy.

BTW, look closely at the matchups. Outside of Packers beating the Bears (and if the Bears have wrapped up HFA by Week 17, that's not out of the realm of possibility), there's not a single "miracle" required for this to happen. Skins over Giants in Week 17 may qualify, but I'm not even sure that's required for the Packers to make the Playoffs (due to the tiebreaker reasons). Other than that, though ...

Todd Ching said...

If Scott Boras were somehow shot and killed (I'd take paralyzed), I wouldn't shed a tear, would any of you?

Honestly, he wants $18-$20 million/year on top of the posting fee! More than Carpenter, Schmidt, et al. All this for a guy who has never pitched in the majors. And worst of all he didn't even do a counter-offer to the Red Sox, in totally bad faith negotiations.

Okay, so maybe him getting shot is a little much... poisoned or stabbed though seems just about right. I guess it's a good thing I live 3,000 miles from this guy... since his bodyguards would probably beat the crap out of me...

-Todd (Boston)

Eric said...

chrth - good to see someone else read Blink...

rukrusher said...

VC 3!!! All night, nine 3pts against the Grizz, J-Kidd with another Triple Double and no love in the notes.

Anonymous said...

if the Packers somehow make the playoffs(which i don't think they will), maybe finally Brett Farve retires. Dan, i'm in the same boat. I finished rank 3rd(with the person rank 4th 150points behind me) in points in my league, and didn't make the playoffs. my ROY would be Jones-Drew

Anonymous said...

Chrth asked the question I was wondering.

What did happen to Dante Hall?

I'm hoping teams learn not to kick to Hester next week as I play against Bears D/Special teams in fantasy playoffs.

jhawkjjm said...

The Sixers can't pack it up. They play in the Eastern conference! A 3 game win streak is probably all they would need to lead their division...whichever one that is.

NBA=zzzzzz

rafael said...

Actually, I can see the Packers winning out....I can also see them losing out.

But too many other teams have to lose for the Pack to get in.
Similar thing for the Steelers. I can see them winning out, but too big of a hole to get into the playoffs.

ChrTh said...

I looked it up ... and Dante Hall is still playing. Still a WR/KR for the Chiefs.

I'm guessing we haven't heard his name lately because refs started calling illegal blocks during his returns.

Jingoist said...

Dan,

The solution for your Fantasy woes? Join a Rotisserie League that accumulates points for the season and that's how the standings are kept. Total points, not H2H.

ndyanksfan05 said...

chrth - your biggest problem is expecting the Giants to get swept the final three games when they play the Eagles at home (against Garcia, not McNabb) and the Redskins...they'll be getting strahan back, are starting to get healthy in general and are putting all the pieces in place to make a run (ie Eli not making stupid decisions, stopping any running attack, running the ball well and blocking for Eli).

CMFost said...

jing, H2H is much more fun, you can't have any real fun down and dirty trash talking when you are not going H2H. Rotesserie is only good for 2 things baseball and chicken.

ndyanksfan05 said...

chrth - keep those dreams alive...its the only thing that makes watching a crap team worth while - without hope you might as well not cheer at all.

cmfrost - i'd worry about my own team (who cares if they will definitely make the playoffs...it doesn't look like they are going to get very far once in it if they don't turn things around FAST).

Big D said...

2 things.

First, it sickens me that we can actually be talking about the (theoritically not yet impossible) playoff chances of the Packers. Hell, for that matter, the friggin' Cardinals are still technically alive.

Second, and this is @ todd ching, I picked up on something you wrote in that comment... "And worst of all he didn't even do a counter-offer to the Red Sox, in totally bad faith negotiations." Think there's any chance the Red Sox' negotiation team tries to play the "bad faith" card if this whole thing falls apart?

And if they do, and are successful with it, think there's any chance that it could signal the end of the Scott Boras Era? I mean, isn't an agent's job to get his player signed at a reasonable contract? So, if the agent is refusing to even negotiate with the team that has the exclusive bargaining rights, isn't Boras violating the CBA?

Could he possibly lose his rights to negotiate on behalf of the MLBPA, kind of like what happened to LaVar Arrington's agent with the NFLPA?

I'm not a lawyer, but I know there are a few that read this blog. Any help here guys?

GuyInTheCorner said...

Obviously we need me to do some research.

Rookie of the Year:
Maurice "MOJO" "MJD" Jones-Drew
Reggie Bush
Marques Colston
Devin Hester
Joseph "Live and Let" Addai

Jones-Drew currently sits at 1,700 all-purpose yards. The rookie record belongs to Tim Brown who recorded 2,317 yards in 1988. If he breaks this record, and I believe he will, that ends the ROY discussion. Period.

Reggie Bush has a great chance to lead all running backs in catches. He will deffinitly break the rookie record for receptions by a running back.

Marques Colston is most likely going to be the next really great receiver, but the injury killed what might have been a great challenge for Mojo.

Devin Hester... um, did you see last night's game?

Joseph Addai is the only real starting running back on the list, but plays for the Colts and the important part of their running game is trying to stop the other team.

In other news...

The New Ball is on the way out. David Stern said that he had to pull it because of injuries to the hands of guys who handle the ball alot such as Steve Nash and Jason Kidd. The question is, has any other sport ever changed the ball in THE MIDDLE OF A SEASON? I think not. The other question is, if it's causing injuries and you can change it in the middle of the year, why wait 3 weeks?

According to the new rumors Iverson could be on his way to Sacremento as early as tonight. Good fit? Judging by Iverson and Artest being good friends, I'll give you a rock solid maybe.

Freddy Adu was traded out of DC because he wasn't happy, they wanted to make him happy, and they wanted to get something before he flees to England.

Jimmy Johnson is borderline mentally disabled.

The Witchita State Shockers are 10th in College Basketball. Reread previous sentence.

The Boston Red Sox are making the best attempt they can to negotiate with the evermore-retarded Boras. They are increasing their offer eventhough he refused to counter-offer their last one. Theo Epstein flew out to LA to meet with them today and hope to have Matsuzaka on the plane back to Boston for the physical and signing. The good news is that Boras says it will be Matsuzaka's decision if he takes the deal or not. Good to know that it has to be stated the player chooses who he plays for.

Jeff Bagwell retires and it's time. He has had a great career and will most likely find a spot in Cooperstown.

The Seattle Mariners have signed Miguel Batista (3 years, 24 million) to replace Gil Meche (5 years, 55 million) in their rotation. Check their lines from last season:
Batista: 206.1 IP, 11 W 8 L, 110 K 84 BB, 4.58 ERA
Meche: 186.2 IP, 11 W 8 L, 156 K 84 BB, 4.48 ERA
So obviously 19.2 fewer inning and 46 more strikeouts are worth 2 years and 31 million. WOW.

CONGRATS TO BIG D for winning our first free agent competition with his dead-on guess of 1 year 6 million from the Rangers to Lofton.

CMFost said...

actually big d accroding to ESPN:

Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Oakland, Tampa Bay and Washington have been eliminated from playoff contention.

and I would love to see your scenario of Borass being thrown out on his ass. I could also see the Sox talking to the commisioner and saying that his agent did nto even try to make a deal and you should extend the deadline.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Scoring consistently is just as important as scoring a lot in fantasy...you can't blow out a team by 100 then only score 40 points the next week - it inflates your total score but you still aren't consistent leading to more loses.

adam said...

@chrh and Eric, Thanks I was trying to remember where I had read that.

RexyBack said...

How about Obama last night? Did anyone else in the Chicago area get chills at the end of that promo?

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

VY is the ROY. You do not come into the league as a QB on a bad team and have them 1 game below .500. Many of the "experts" felt Young was a project that would take 2-3 years to develop. While Colston has been great this year and Hester is fun to watch each punt and kick. No other position is more responsible for a team than the QB position and you can look at the Titans at the beginning of the year and look at them now. Totally different attitude on this team and there is only one person that is responsible for that, VY.

CrumbBum said...

I don't think Boras is that out of line. If Ted Lilly gets 11 mil/year, why shouldn't the best available pitcher get 15 mil? I understand DM is not a free agent and Lilly was, but he's also SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable than a Ted Lilly. DM wasn't technically a free agent, but he was the best pitcher on the market, and that drives up the price. The Red Sox can't claim the 51 mil on bidding is part of the price, because they were about 20 mil ahead of everyone else. They knew what they were getting into with DM and Boras. I don't blame Boras (more than usual), the Sox are low-balling him. It's like a football holdout- guy may not be a free agent, but he's still got market value and if he's severely underpaid he can choose to sit out.

Vince Young- WAAAAY overhyped. He's winning games and making plays, but a QB rating that low indicates some smoke and mirror shit going on. When Vick came into the league, every great play he made called attention to his potential, but he's never hit that potential because he can't throw. When expectations are low, it's easy to impress. Now that his expectations have been raised, he's been exposed.

That's where VY is right now: expectations are low, so everything he does is impressive. Everytime he does something amazing we talk about how talented he is, but for a QB you can't brush aside passing ability so easy. He clearly hasn't shown that ability yet. Expectations are going to rise for him quickly, and if he doesn't improve his passing people will quickly change their tune. I understand he's still a rookie, but he relies a lot on athleticism and that doesn't bode well for his future.

Richard said...

Forget the Offensive ROY. I want to see DeMeco Ryans win defensive ROY. Just to give the Texans a slap in the face for that first round pick.

By the way, if anyone thinks Hester can't be ROY because he's a return man, it's kinda like saying Jerry Rice can't be the best player of all time because he was a WR. Interesting question. I was debating this with my buddies last night, although we came to a consensus Vince Young ROY with Hester as a unanimous second.

marcomarco said...

@ guyinthecorner

Reggie Bush has a great chance to lead all running backs in catches. He will deffinitly break the rookie record for receptions by a running back.


Bush is currently 3rd in receptions (79) in THE NFL.
92 - Andre Johnson
82 - Steven Jackson
79 - Reggie Bush
77 - Chad Johnson
76 - Torry Holt
75 - Laveranues Coles

How do I know this? My FF league gives 1pt for receptions and I maximize this by getting RB's who get a ton. (see Tiki, Priest, etc)

ndyanksfan05 said...

Again - VY needed overtime to beat the Houstan Texans and Eli to hand him the Giants game. He is not MVP, he is not ROY, he is just a mediocre QB whose ability to run makes him pretty good. He still can't throw all that accurately and he is going to start making a lot of mistakes once defenses get a read on him.

ChrTh said...


chrth - your biggest problem is expecting the Giants to get swept the final three games when they play the Eagles at home (against Garcia, not McNabb) and the Redskins...they'll be getting strahan back, are starting to get healthy in general and are putting all the pieces in place to make a run (ie Eli not making stupid decisions, stopping any running attack, running the ball well and blocking for Eli).


Well, the Skins might not have to beat the Giants, the tiebreaker is too hard to reckon at this point (since if both are 8-8, they'll have the same Conference Record). That said, Strahan might be done for the season (according to SI.com NFL Rumors for today), the Eagles got the Ewing Theory Mojo going, and Eli Manning is still Eli Manning.

Guys, remember, it's not that I expect this to happen, it's just a scenario I'm rooting for. And it's fun.

Arizona, Cleveland, Detroit, Houston, Oakland, Tampa Bay and Washington have been eliminated from playoff contention.

As of yesterday, only Clevelend, Detroit, and Oakland had been eliminated according to the playoff picture; my guess is that teams aren't 'eliminated' until all games are played because I know of no reason why Houston would be eliminated by virtue of a Chicago win.

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

crumbbum are you really Merill Hoge? If you have watched any Titans games you will see that Vince has been trying to stay in the pocket and go through his progressions if nothing is there he takes off. When Vick came in the league he would drop back look for his primary receiver and if he was covered take off. Vince's passing has improved since he had the 3 int game against J'Ville and it will continue to improve the rest of the year as he gets more comfortable in the offense.

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

ndyanksfan when Brady busts and VY is leading the Titans to the playoffs will you admit you are wrong. How can you call a rookie who is on a 4 game win streak an average QB?

CMFost said...

crumbbum if the red Sox new offer is say 4 years at 12 Million a year with an option years for say 15 million would you sat the red sox are low balling him. Actually in a story I read today most teams would bid on him expected his salary to be in the 8-10 million a year range. The fact of the matter is the Red Sox have tried to sign matsuzaka and BorASS has been holding up the process. How can you not blame BorASS the guy has not even given the Red Sox a counter offer from there orginal offer. He probably will not even counter the new offer.

CMFost said...

chrth - that was who was out as of the time I posted. Cut and pasted directly from ESPN

ChrTh said...

@cmfost, yeah, I was agreeing with you, sorry should've made that more clear. The reason we thought Arizona was still in it was because yesterday they were still listed in the various playoff pictures, but they must wait until Tuesday to update.

BTW, on the AI front, it appears Iverson nixed a deal with the Charlotte Bobcats:
Jordan is the Question

Expect to see it come up again if no other deals are workable.

CrumbBum said...

I'm not saying VY is a run first QB, or that his ability to run is a negative. I'm saying thus far, he hasn't shown himself to be a good passer, and a lot of his hype has come off his feet, not his arm. A QB has to throw, first and foremost. Mobility is only an issue when it hampers that ability (ie Bledsoe).

Boras should make a counter offer, but as I said, if mediocre-at-best Ted Lilly/Gil Meche are going to set such a high bar, then a highly touted potential ace will also command a ridiculous salary.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Giants Packer tiebreakers -
1. Head-to-Head - NA
2. Common teams played
a. Chicago (GB 1-1 not played win, NY 0-1)
b. Saints (GB 0-1, NY 0-1 not played)
c. Phil (GB 0-1, NY 1-1 not played L)
d. Seatle (GB 0-1, NY 0-1)
TOTAL 1-4 to 1-4
therefore NA

3. Strenght of victory (point differential)
Giants currently are +24
Green Bay currently are -94
In the three remaining if the Giants average loss is by 17 and the GB average win is by 24 the GB would then get the edge in this category.

So to sum up - the Giants win the tie-breaker if they beat the Redskins barring a miracle (a 50 point loss by the gaints/50 point win by the packers.

CMFost said...

FutureLegend - let see VY get his team into the playoffs and lead them to a title before you annoint him the greatest ever. VY is a OK qb and has made his team better but the real reason they are winning is they have been running the ball well during the win streak and have decent defense.

During the streak:
Win Over Philly - Henry 143 yds and 1td, Def has a fumble reurn for a TD and a punt return for a Td

Win over the Giants - Defense causes to late turnovers that leads to scores

win over indy 219 yards rushing and 2 turnovers from the Defense

win over houston 218 yards rushing , 2 tds from Travis Henry

ChrTh said...

@ndyanksfan05:

Thanks, that's the info I didn't dig into.

So you can see why I'm rooting for Gibbs to end the season on a high note.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I think VY is not established as a great QB yet - there are 21 other players on the field to help that team to victory each week... throwing 51.7% for 10 TD 11 INT a rating of 65.7 and a YPA of 5.9 is not awe inspiring is all.

Nice bash on Brady though, who hasn't played a down yet...who said anything about him?

CMFost said...

Rookie QB stats - Just looking at the stats which QB should be the rookie of the year if it was just down to 2.


the one with:
51.7% Comp, 1704 Yds, 10 td, 11 int, 65.7 rating, 69 rushes, 458 yds, 5tds and 2 fumbles lost

or the one with:
56.2% comp, 2171 yds, 10 tds, 10int, 73.9 rating, 19 rushes, 26 yds, 2 tds, 1 fumble lost

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

Titans are last in the NFL in defense but other than that it is pretty decent.

ndyanksfan05 said...

no problem - its either dig into the info or work...easy decision.

ndyanksfan05 said...

ROY should be going to one of the stud RB not the decent QBs.

Mike said...

My friend last season was the high scorer during the season, but missed the playoffs, then lost the first consolation game, too. Finished 7th in the league with far and away the highest point total.

Oh, and...

GO PACK GO!

CMFost said...

I agree that there are RB's that are far more deserving of the ROY then Vy or Lienart.

Addai leads all rookies in rushing.
Bush leads all rookies in catches
Jones-Drew leads all rookies in total yards.

And unlike Leinart and VY they are playing for team in playoffs contention.

CMFost said...

also just looking at stats I think hester should not be in the mix for ROY of the year. All he does is return kicks he been in virtually invisable in the Bears D. At first I thought maybe he deserves consideration but now I do not. My ROY Ballot would be now:

Jones-Drew
Addai
Bush
Colston
VY
Maroney
Leinart

H said...

CrumbBum, I want you to read this sentence you posted. "if mediocre-at-best Ted Lilly/Gil Meche are going to set such a high bar, then a highly touted potential ace will also command a ridiculous salary."

The key word there is POTENTIAL. He is not an ace yet, he has never thrown a major league pitch. The two pitchers you mentioned are indeed mediocre, but at least they are proven and you know what you'll get from them.

If the Sox were to shell out the contract that Boras wants, and then DM becomes a bust, you're the same guy who would knock them for signing a guy who has never thrown in the majors to a huge contract. I for once cannot blame the Sox for their stnace on this one.

CMFost said...

I know the ROY debate is more important but I wanted to update a story I touched on earlier today. I know best wishes for a speedy recovery got out to Phil Kessel.

MONTREAL -- Wade Arnott, Phil Kessel's agent, confirmed this morning that his client underwent successful surgery yesterday at Massachusetts General Hospital.

Arnott said the procedure was cancer-related but did not confirm CBS4's report that Kessel was diagnosed with testicular cancer.

"He's resting in Boston and on the road to recovery," said Arnott.

Arnott said that Kessel had felt minor symptoms related to his condition leading up to the diagnosis. Arnott said Kessel's condition was determined "very recently."

"He got thrown a curveball," Arnott said, "but he's holding up pretty well."

ChrTh said...

Due to information above, I've created a new scenario wherein the Giants are the other Wild Card with the Packers.

In this scenario, the Eagles would need to go 0-3, and the unlikely victory of Skins over Giants has been replaced by the slightly less unlikely Panthers over Falcons.

In reality, the winner of Giants-Eagles determines which scenario needs to be followed going forward.

Week 15
Green Bay beats Detroit
Giants beat Eagles
Cowboys beat Falcons
Steelers beat Panthers

Week 16
Green Bay beats Minnesota
Cowboys beat Eagles
Panthers beat Falcons

Week 17
Green Bay beats Chicago
Falcons beat Eagles*
Minnesota beats Rams**, ***
Saints beat Panthers

*Packers at 8-8 would have a better conference record than the Falcons at 8-8

**There are other games that could have an effect; the Rams just need to lose 1 game, so a loss to either Oakland or Washington (Weeks 15 and 16) eliminates them. However, I'm going to stick with likelier victories.

***Even though the Packers own the tiebreaker with Minnesota, a Packers loss with a Vikings win could put the Vikings in the playoffs at 8-8 in this scenario, so the Vikings should be sufficiently motivated.

CrumbBum said...

When I said potential, I meant he might prove to be that good. As I understand it, they are bringing him in as a top of the rotation starter (and the 50 mil posting would indicate the same). They think he'll become the ace. Personally, I disagree, and I wouldn't have posted that much nor would I sign him to such a high salary.

My issue here is the mixed message the Red Sox are sending. If he's worth 50 mil to talk to, isn't he worth a high salary too? If he's not worth at least 12 mil or so, why'd they even bother posting a bid in the first place? No one's throwing down 50 mil to talk to Ted Lilly. So either the Sox think he's THAT good and should pay him accordingly, or they don't think he's that good and shouldn't have bid so high in the first place. Right now, to me, it seems they want to have their cake and eat it too... they want to take a gamble on this potential stud, but they don't want to put up the money that would make sense for this kind of risk/reward.

You can say he's proven nothing, and I agree... but if he were that big of a risk he wouldn't have been such big news, and the bidding wouldn't have been so outlandish. But these types of risk/reward deals are a part of every sport, and it's what makes or breaks a team.

CrumbBum said...

BTW Mr. Shanoff, when I fail this final I'm supposed to be studying for, you owe me an apology.

CMFost said...

this is from a story in today's Boston Globe regarding Matsuzaka.


The New York Mets and New York Yankees were of the same mindset as the Sox when they made their bids in the posting process -- that Matsuzaka was worth in the vicinity of $8 million per year, $10 million tops.

The Yankees can get as crazy as anyone with money, but even they understand the risk.

Stooncer said...

The deal for Matsuzaka will be done by the deadline. I watched Boras keep Jared Weaver out of baseball for nearly a year - down to the point where if the Angels didn't sign him he would have gone back into the entry draft and continued to be out of baseball for at least another 6 months. Thankfully, both sides came to their senses before it was too late and he is well worth the price.

Boras is a major screw at negotiating, but he holds out until his clients get the maximum amount possible. At what expense? Team and fan resentment can kill a career before it even gets started, but as long as everyone is getting paid, I guess that doesn't really matter.

Jo Fer said...

RE: VY

"How can you call a rookie who is on a 4 game win streak an average QB?"

Paging Kyle Orton....Paging Kyle Orton....(he had an 8 game win streak last year)

As a bears fan, what I'm curious to is should "Seven" Hester start showing up in the offense for some plays during the playoffs. With his newfound media hype, (which is justified, the guy almost broke another 2-3 KO's this season) wouldn't he be a GREAT decoy, a la Reggie Bush, or even as a legitimate back for certain plays.

Time to see if Lovie is as genius as he's seemed so far in his tenure.

Keithsrk said...

Rookie of the Year

1. Vince Young
7. Reggie Bush
8. Maurice Jones-Drew

And I'm understating the difference between Vince and the rest of the field. Vince has changed his team's fortunes mid-way through the year, and single-handedly won 2 games (Giants and Houston).

Jon said...

I don't know if this has been brought up, but for you Boston guys complaining about Boras and him being a bad agent. It's not his job to get a "reasonable deal", it's his job to get his player the BEST deal. You guys might not have liked the Drew deal, but that is a prime example of him being a good agent. As much as we all hate him, he always tries his best to get his guy the best contract.

I do agree that Matsuzaka isn't worth the 18-20 million per year which Boras is looking for, but I also don't think 8-10 million is a fair deal for him. Gil Meche is making 11 million a year!!! The Sox should just forget about the posting dollars and offer the guy 15-16 million a year and then he'll probably sign.

CMFost said...

Jon your point is well taken but he should of at least made a counter offer. He has basically taken the Red Sox offers and done nothing.

Jon said...

I'm sure he will counter now that the Red Sox have actually countered.

Natsfan74 said...

The thing that sucks for the Red Sox is they are comparing total contract value including the posting fee, and Boras just wants the cash. Suppose D-Mat (as ESPN has now dubbed him) is actually worth $14M per year, over 5. Then the total value, including posting fee, is $120M, or $24M per season. That seems beyond ridiculous for anyone who plays every 5th day, but even more so for a guy with no ML experience. I think 6 years at $8M per, total of $100M, is probably the real value to the team. Are the Red Sox prepared to see him go back to Japan for another season though?

Todd Ching said...

Exactly cmfost, the lack of a counteroffer is what's discouraging to me. Really seems like a move out of bad faith in negotiations.

The thing is that Matsuzaka is NOT a free agent, therefore cannot expect free agent level compensation. He's never pitched in MLB, and therefore can't be payed like one of the elite pitchers here. $11-$12 million year sounds reasonable, but Boras is nuts if he thinks he should get more.

What I worry about is that Boras isn't negotiating in good faith with the Red Sox, and that he's not telling his client exactly what's going on.

Do I think if a deal doesn't get done that Boras will be repremanded? No, not unless Daisuke comes out and says that he never received word of the Sox offers. But, if a deal doesn't happen, I doubt any prominent Japanese clients will sign with him in the future.

Where's Nike in all of this? Aren't they putting a hell of a lot of pressure on Matsuzaka to sign?

-Todd (Boston)

Jon said...

Before yesterday had the Red Sox moved off of their original offer? It seems like they both made their first offers and just left them on the table waiting for the other to blink. Not bad faith, just part of the game of negotiating. The Red Sox played this card last year with Johnny Damon.

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

cmfrost yes Leinart has better stats than Young but look at his WR both are All-Pros. VY has Drew Bennett and a bunch of young WR. Why don't you look at their win totals.

Leinart has won 3 games
VY has won 6 games.

Jofer do not even compare what VY has done for the Titans this year to whay Orton did last year. The Titans are relying on VY to win games not the defense the way the Bears have done this year and did last year.

Todd Ching said...

No, the Red Sox hadn't made a 2nd offer until yesterday. But according to the Red Sox, they never received an actual counteroffer to the first one, which would be somewhat bad faith. Additionally, Boras had told the Red Sox that Daisuke would be directly involved in the negotiations in the next couple days, and last night Boras took him off the table (whether or not he'll be directly involved isn't known at this moment).

And the comparison to Johnny Damon is completely invalid, since Damon was a free agent, and could negotiate with more than just one team.

Boras has claimed he's been talking to Theo everyday, but he hasn't gone so far as to say he's ever done a counter-offer.

Like I've been saying, if he hasn't counter-offered (even if he counter-offered something absurd), or if he hasn't been completely upfront with Matsuzaka throughout, that's where I have the problem.

If it's just hardball and by the book, that's fine with me (although I still hate the man), but if it's in bad faith, I do have a major problem with that, and so should MLB.

-Todd (Boston)

Anonymous said...

Look, the Titans don't win ANYTHING without Vince Young. That's MVP.

The playoff contention thing is a JOKE. If your team is in the playoffs, then THAT's your award. So what if Jones-Drew and Maroney is in the playoffs? That makes Vince's feat MORE impressive, not less.

And "needing" overtime to win never hurt those Montana, Favre and Elway guys, did it? It's not about QB rating with this guy. None of these other guys come close to being exciting the way Vince does.




And hey, I'm trying to start LVP talk, how about Culpepper?

Hisjazziness said...

Am I supposed to feel bad for the Red Sox that Boras is playing hardball with Suke?

Because I don't. Here's hoping he doesn't sign and the Yankees post the highest bid next year (coming from a non-Yankee fan).

Sheldiz said...

solomon -- i'm sticking by my Vanderjagt vote for LVP.

Jo Fer said...

VY faN,

Don't get me wrong, I think he is a talent and am rooting for him. I was simply commenting that the "rookie win streak" justifying him as better than average is not what I'd be using to make my argument. Your response to me is the reasoning I would use, that he is performing well as the CENTER of the team.


Re: ROY

My thought has always been, which rookie has played the most like a "talented pro" among the rookie class. Meaning, I would vote for a rookie that put up a consistent full "pro-like" season at his position over a person who has shown potential, or flashes of brilliance.

This years class is as tough as ever. There are lots of players having very "seasoned pro" type seasons as rookies. A sports illustrated article about a month ago pointed this out that rookies are making a much bigger impact in the NFL than traditionally with the learning curve. They made up a mock 2006 rookie all pro starting lineup, and guys like Leinart and Bush weren't even making the cut. All 22 positions had full time starters. I'm biased, but check out Bears DE Mark Anderson 24 TKL, 10 SACKS, 3 FF, 2 Passes Blk. He should be in the discussion too.

GuyInTheCorner said...

ALL AMERICANS ARE OUT

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2695097

I have very few objections. I object to the lack of Ted Ginn Jr. and Mario Manningham.

nyc-steelers fan said...

gotta say, for rookie of the year, the criteria is 'who impresses the most as a rookie.' It's not MVP criteria, which requires you make your team competitive. And it's not about setting rookie records.

I haven't been watching a lot of jags games, but I'd say stats alone makes J-D impressive. Vince Young impresses the hell out of me; there aren't many (if any) QBs, period, who could be making the plays he is making, key plays to winning the games. As for the passer rating, until someone can adjust it to account for big plays (in crunch time), runs, sacks avoided, fumbles, receiver drops, pressure by the defense, etc., etc., I will not take it as the end-all-be-all of QB quality.

Obviously, the ROY candidates don't operate in a vacuum; the quality of their teammates can determine how good you look (i.e. O-line and threat of passing can make a rookie running back in, say, Indy, look better than your average rookie); at least in Vince Young's case we have a pretty good comparison (hmmm, who's done better in that offense, Collins or Young?).

I certainly wasn't expecting him to be this good. I'm not a UT fan, and I'm sure as hell not a Titans fan. But I can't help being won over by what I see, and he's doing things that rookie QBs just aren't supposed to do. If you're objectively watching the phenomenon that is Vince Young's rookie season, the plays he is making when his team needs him to, how can you not just shake your head and say, WOW!

My ballot:
1.Young
2.Colston
3.Drew-Jones
4.Addai
5.Leinart(even though I can't stand him)

Big D said...

@ guyinthecorner:

Holy Crap: No Manningham or Ginn as receivers... but Jeff Smafdsjlkweouisaksfda made the 2nd team?

At least Ginn made the "All-purpose" position...

rafael said...

VY is not the ROY. There are rookies that have been performing ALL season. Those are more deserving.

Matsusaka isn't exactly a new prospect. The guy's a veteran who has proven himself in a pretty league. This isn't Boras' fault. It's the dumbass GMs and Owners who don't have the common sense to just say no. Fiscal responsibility?? Bah! So long as management is dumb enough to take the prices, they'll always go up a little more.

Half-Man/All-Amazing said...

Jeff Samardzija -
70rec - 958yds - 13.7avg - 11TDs

Ted Ginn
51rec - 677yds - 13.3avg - 8TDs

Mario Manningham
32rec - 624yds - 19.5avg - 9TDs

That's why he's your 2nd Team All-American selection.

Manningham wasn't even 1st Team AP Big 10 All-Conference. He was 2nd Team.

Along with Samardzija, Ginn should have been 2nd or 3rd Team All-America though. He had a solid all around year (including return yardage). Him or Samardzija's teammate Rhema McKnight, who had 15 TDs(!), but not quite the receptions (64) or yards (885) as Samardzija.

ndyanksfan05 said...

I'll admit there maybe should have been some other WR that deserved it over Samardzija but Carlson deserved to be the TE - he had better numbers than the first and second team TE and played in two less games...he was the glue of the ND receiving core. He deserved it.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Key word MAYBE about the shark

Chaddogg said...

The NFL has offensive AND defensive rookies of the year....my question is does Hester qualify for either?

I mean, he's been an outstanding special team player, and I'm a Bears fan, so I'd love to see him win some hardware. And he's had a huge impact on the Bears this year (Bears are getting much better field position this year with him than they did last year when their return guys muffed a ton of punts and scared no one).

But what are the criteria for being a defensive or offensive player? And does Devin's outstanding special teams work count?

As for defensive ROY, I gotta go with my man Mark Anderson on the Bears. All the guy does is get to the QB, get sacks, and force fumbles. A genuine force on the D-line, and a 6th round pick to boot.

Big D said...

Gagne to the Rangers, 1 year, $8M.

I'm setting an over/under of "Appearances before first trip to the DL" at 28.5.

Any takers?

ChrTh said...

@big d: Under. Is there any side-betting for "On DL at start of season"?

CMFost said...

yeah I will take the under!!!

GuyInTheCorner said...

Here's the way I see it.

The Chicago Bears are 11-2.

Here's the top 5 Bears in TDs.

1. Devin "Gets 7" Hester (6 TD)
T2. Cedric "Mildly Entertaining" Benson (5 TD)
T2. Bernard "Where'd I Come From" Berrian (5 TD)
T2. Thomas "Don't Call Me Julius" Jones (5 TD)
T2. Muhsin "Pork" Muhammad (5 TD)

That has to count for something.

Maybe not a ROY. But something.

CMFost said...

yeah, it will get him a trip to the pro bowl as the special teams player.

CMFost said...

here is how the red sox should base Matsuzaka Contract.

5 Years with 10 million in base for the first year and goes up a million a year

with incentives based on wins.
10 wins in a season an extra million
15 wins 2 million extra
20 wins 3 million extra
so a 20 win season in year 5 would be worth 21 million.

GuyInTheCorner said...

I feel like there should be a Special Teams Player of the Year.

The Brian Mitchell Trophy.

GuyInTheCorner said...

WOW.

I just checked Brian Mitchell's stats. That guy played 14 years.

12 of them were 1000 yard seasons and he averaged 1666 yards a year.

Thats crazy.

He's 2nd all time in all pupose yards behind only Jerry Rice by 216 yards.

GuyInTheCorner said...

PATRIOTS/DOLPHINS???????

I can't say anything except that there are already rumors about the commissioners office stepping in.

I don't know whats going on but Zach Thomas isn't in the habbit of making stuff up.

The question is how could you punish the Dolphins? Some recent propositions are:

1.Give the W to the Pats
2.Strip the Dolphins of next years draft picks
3.Fine them

H said...

guyinthecorner, huh??

CMFost said...

the dolphins did nothing illegal in getting the tapes with audio, truely it was just good coaching. and this is coiming from a Patriots fan.

GuyInTheCorner said...

There are rumors that it was more than that.

To be honest, I'm so confused about the different rumors that I can't even repeat them.

I'm currently listening to the SportsBash on ESPN Radio. They were just talking about the rumors that are flying.

H said...

What rumors?

Brian in Oxford said...

I think ROY is Colston now, but with Vince coming up hard on the outside. W's count more than stats, unless you're Dan Marino or Peyton Manning. (ha!)

Where's Iverson going?

The easiest way out of fantasy is to just do a picks pool. Of course, it's easier when you can see everyone's picks and aren't waiting for the weekly standings to post.

What if Freddy Adu's parents don't want to move to Utah? The kid's a minor...can he actually BE traded without some sort of parental consent?

And who CARES about the NBA ball? Ever play pickup hoops? You're lucky if it's not a severely underinflated smooth marble, or bounces over your head. Play with what they roll out there, already. Sheesh.

Speaking of non All-America wide receivers, the Manninghams haven't posted since, oh...November 18th, have they? (I think they were one and the same.)

ChrTh said...

Not seeing these rumors anywhere online yet ... what's the deal?

FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

These Pats/Dolphins rumors will someone please explain what is going on because it seems that someone just mentioned it without going into detail.

Jon said...

The rumors are that the Dolphins had game sound to the Patriots game tapes. This helped them get familiar with some of Brady's signals.

You haven't heard anything because it's a nonstory.

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FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

Dan you're getting blog-a-marketers on the site now. I think this deserves a congratulations.

Big D said...

Shockingly askinstoo doesn't have a profile or his own page. Damn, I was really hoping to find new ways to earn money.

By the way, since I don't feel like posting on my own blog before the deadline, here's my Diceman contract prediction:

IF a contract gets done, I'm pretty certain it will be in the 5 years, $82.5M range. Probably with two mutual option years.

Although I do like the incentive-laden deal, I don't think there any chance in hell that Boras allows the most high-profile free-agent since A-Rod to sign an incentive contract.

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FutureLegendVinceYoung said...

Dan is it possible to block someone because that is now twice that askintoo has posted

JeterIs#1 said...

Dan as a business man you gotta look at the economic theory of sunk cost, if the Sox want D-Mat they have to think of the 51.1 mil as a sunk cost and negotiate from there. That cost has nothing to do with D-mat or Boras, they put it on the table and they will either have to live with it or live without him.

Anonymous said...

I totally know what you mean. I have a 10 team league. I finished the season with the highest point total by quite a large margin, and finished dead last in the standings!! How does that happen?!

Jon said...

5 year, 82.5 will probably get it done. I think they could probably sign him for a little less too like 14 or 15 a year.....You just have to hope that the Red Sox finally realize that they should forget about the fee.

Stooncer said...

I bet askinstoo is Scott Boras' screen name. He just wants to share his bartering skills with the common man. It's his master plan to infuse fan bases with enough disposable income to spend on sports tickets. That in turn allows ownership to raise ticket prices and reap excess revenue to afford skyrocketing player salaries (of which Boras will eventually get a cut).

I'm not biting.

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marcomarco said...

Screw off askinstoo.

Sheldiz said...

anyone watch the Sports Center "year in review"?? It was on at the gym and was probably the best thing i've ever run to. So if you get a chance, watch it.

although it did not make me $900 a month while having fun.

kmv9 said...

Dan, I feel your pain about fantasy...

I got the mad shaft in my league, in a 12 team league I finished dead last even though I was 2nd in scoring.

I was so annoyed at work this past week that I ran the numbers and it turned out every team I played had one of their top 3 scoring performances of the season against me. Now if that doesn't blow then I don't know what does.

I had only 2 bad weeks but I still finishes 3-9. It just goes to prove you can't bet on anything (exactly why casinos have so much money)

Lew said...

In my 12 team league I made the playoffs because I won my division. Only four teams made the playoffs, three division winners and one wild card. There were three teams that missed the playoffs and had the same or a better record then me. In the power rankings I think was ranked #8.

Yup, I am the St. Louis Cardinals of fantasy football