Wednesday, August 08, 2007

Wednesday 08/08 A.M. Quickie: BONDS 756!

Bonds 756: There. Historic, yes, but sort of anti-climactic now, isn't it? The drama (or, alternatively, annoyance) was in the build-up.

There will be the teeth-gnashing this morning, but now that the record is broken, I anticipate the anti-Bonds sentiment to thaw. It is the resignation that comes with inevitability.

This morning on the "Today" show, I watched Bob Costas piss on the moment. Less than 12 hours after the moment, Costas came across as shrill -- hardly the conscience of baseball, but instead its dour cousin, Mr. Scold.

I respect your position if you find yourself today crippled by self-righteous indignation, but I'm enjoying the history. Last night, Bonds was the antithesis of smug: He seemed entirely aware of (and respectful of) the history he has made.

His tribute to Hank Aaron – and, of course, his tearful tribute to his late father – not to mention his tribute to the fans (even fans in opposing stadiums) seemed gracious and entirely bitterness-free. Bonds could afford to be magnanimous in triumph; the point was that he was.

Back to my original point: 756 is here (and 757 will probably show up sooner rather than later). There is no asterisk. The collective will of Bonds' detractors didn't keep him from reaching the mark.

I'm normally not such a wide-eyed sentimentalist, but if you spend today bitching and moaning about the record being broken, you'll miss the larger (and longer-lasting) feeling of knowing you were witness to sports' arguably most hallowed record being broken.

Mets fan Matt Murphy catches the ball: I love the fact that Murphy was wearing a Mets jersey. He probably loves the fact that he'll make a couple hundred thousand dollars for his effort. (Bonds says he doesn't want the ball, but some collector will pay for it.)

Oh wow: Have you seen the video from the outfield stands? It is insane. (h/t: Deadspin)

Hank Aaron's Message: Aaron obviously realized that his version of the high road -- a video message to Bonds, though not being there in-person -- was the ultimate way to recognize Bonds while still maintaining his own lofty elevation. (Even if he was asleep when the record-breaking home run was hit.) Aaron will get a ton of cred for the move.

(Compare that to Bud Selig, who wasn't at the game in person and could barely register a press release to indicate that he had called Barry Bonds. Selig, admittedly in a tough spot, really bumbled this whole thing. The best news for him is that it's now behind him.)

What Next? Bonds says he'll be back in '08. Again: I think that 756, while historic, will fade into the background as Bonds pushes forward. Personally, I would like to see him hit the 800 mark. Between the rest of this season and a healthy 2008, he could do it.

(The larger question: Now that he has the record and the Giants have harvested as much value as they're going to get from him, do they try to keep him around? They should: Aside from Bonds, that team has little to market itself around.)

Mike Bacsik: I think the whole "HR-surrendering pitcher goes down in history" thing is a little overblown, but for the record, this was the guy. I love the whole backstory about how Bacsik's father pitched to Hank Aaron.

Blogger Reaction (in-progress):

Deadspin Blogdome

Awful Announcing

Armchair GM

AOL Fanhouse 1
AOL Fanhouse 2

Dale Murphy rips Bonds: Seems like the wrong time to say Bonds sets a "terrible example" for our kids. You can question Bonds' methods, but how about the way he honored Hank Aaron or his father or the fans? To be honest, Bonds looked and sounded downright gracious.

Everything else:

Brady Quinn signs with the Browns: The second part of that headline is "Still a douchebag," but at least he can now begin to earn back the fans' loyalty by performing on the field.

Rovell was right: Let's just look back to draft day, when Darren Rovell predicted that Quinn's slide from No. 3 to No. 22 would result in a loss of roughly $17 million. Rovell was right on the money.

MLB Stud: Umm... Barry Bonds.

(Sorry! Sorry! Yes: And Jake Peavy.)

MLB Dud: Anaheim Angels food vendors. Yikes: 100 citations for vermin violations? Bring your own.

Jays-Yankees plunking war: I guess Toronto's season is so over that the only pleasure they can find is in beaning A-Rod and enjoying the subsequent retaliation from Roger Clemens. Then: Back to obscurity.

Pennant Races: I was just in Denver and I managed to get out to the Rockies-Brewers game on Monday night. For a team in playoff contention, Colorado sure doesn't get many fans out to the ballpark. (But I did get to see, in-person, a home run by Ryan Braun.)

CFB: Wanna bet that "indefinitely suspended" Tennessee RB LaMarcus Coker is reinstated by September 15? That's when the Vols play at Florida.

Meanwhile, reportedly Oregon is looking into playing a regular season game in China, against Boise State. Think the Ducks' Nike connection has anything to do with that decision?

World Soccer: DaMarcus Beasley was met with racist chants in Montenegro during a Champions League match. Unfortunately, this is not an unexpected development, given European fans' history.

Sports Media: NBC is being very smart to hyper-expand their online video offerings of Olympics coverage. I'm quite sure it's a move they would have scoffed at as recently as four years ago (let alone 8 or 12 years ago), but it's a new world.

-- D.S.

117 comments:

Matt T said...

Wanna bet that "indefinitely suspended" Tennessee RB LaMarcus Coker is reinstated by September 15? That's when the Vols play at Florida.

The same way UF's Marcus Thomas was suspended then allowed to play against the teeth of their SEC schedule. Can't call out another school with out 'your' demons coming out either.

Atlanta roughed up Oliver Perez, the only pitcher to win a game for the Mets this year against Atlanta. Smoltz/Hudson in the next two.

Yanks now only 5 back of the Red Sox, closest since April 25th.

rafael said...

So since every homer from now on will be a record setter...shouldn't ESPN show all his at-bats until he retires?

It's fun reading the bitchy, whiny articles from the espn.com writers. I know you reserve the D-bag label for Brady Quinn, but those writers deserve it more.

NOONE remembers any of the pitchers that gave up record-setting homers.

ANd of course Fulmer will reinstate the guy. The Vols aren't exactly the trend-setters on discipline.

Big D said...

The best way of putting the Bascik connection that I've heard so far is this:

Two men in baseball history have ever hit 755 homeruns. Both of them then faced a pitcher named Mike Bascik.



Also, if the Red Sox manage to blow this lead, I might go on some sort of spree.

CMFost said...

big D - Do not worry the red sox will not blow the lead. They have a very easy schedule in comparision to the yankees not just for the rest of the month but the rest of the season.

Red Sox - 49 Games Remaining - 11(6vs NY) Games against teams with a plus 500 record.

Yankees - 49 Games Remaining - 23(6vs Bos) Games Against teams with plus 500 record.

I expect after the Yankees go into Detroit this weekend and the Red Sox are in Baltimore that the lead will be back to 7 Games.

chitown italian said...

Alex Rodriguez is my new favorite player.

Greg said...

How can you call Brady Quinn a d-bag while sucking off Barry. Ever since Barry hit the 70 HR mark it has been the San Francisco Barry's, not the Giants. His son gets to be batboy, his family always sits in the front row, they stop the game after (seemingly) every homerun he hits at home so he can make a speech (what ever happened to taking things in stride/modesty). If I were a Giants player I'd be pissed that the only thing that I was playing for was Barry's next "milestone". On top of that, he lies everytime someone asks him about steroid use, or at least deflects the question. And what about his mistress a few years back? This guy is no hero, he is a SCUMBAG.

WuzUpG said...

Man!, it was a great feeling being at the game yesterday and witnessing history! The message on the board was very special and truly surprising. (For everyone that weren't at the past Giants' homestand or weren't watching FSNBA, they had messages from great professional athletes, such as Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, and Wayne Gretzky congratulating Bonds on the Road to 756 on the best scoreboard in sports.) Now, to culminate all the messages on the board with Aaron to call Barry the new HR champion, that was the greatest thing. Now, Bonds is 85 hits away from 3000. Will that be enough for the Giants re-sign Bonds for next year? Hopefully, not for the lofty price.

rafael said...

btw, here's my problem with NBC and the Olympics.
I want to see EVENTS in the Olympics. There are all kinds of events and sports showcased in the Games that people usually don't see.
So what does NBC give us? 5 minutes of one event sandwiched between 30 minute long fluff bullshit pieces.

FrayLo said...

Re: Selig

Nothing he does shocks me anymore. He is by far and away the WORST commissioner of any sport, ever. He doesn't know how to promote his sport, he is a terrible public speaker, and he is terrible with the media.

Can you imagine if the Donaghy scandal involved baseball umpires instead of NBA referees? The ensuing press conference would've been a disaster compared to Stern's.

CMFost said...

Congrats to Barry, I came to the realization this morning that Barry did what a majority of other players did during the last 10 years to enhance their performance and why should we hate on him. You can personally not like the person but no matter what he is still a great Baseball player. Would he be breaking Aaron's record with PED's who knows but he did break it and it is a record that should be celebrated.

Sparty said...

anybody else feel like their was a huge, steroid fed 800lb gorilla on the field last night after the homerun?

CMFost said...

My 3 biggest problem with NBC's coverage of the Olympics is:

1. Not showing all the events live, now I know with the time zones it can be difficult but there is nothing worse then watching an event and knowing the outcome.

2. Is showing to much coverage of events I could care less about, I do not want to turn on the prime time coverage of the summer games to watch gymnastics, I want see the track events, soccer, baseball, BEACH VOlleyball you know real sports.

3. Get rid of the puff pieces I want to see the sports, I could care less about how someone grew up or there back story save that for some other time. There are plenty of events that you can fill time with.

CMFost said...

sparty the problem is that there was more then 1 steroid fill gorilla on the field last night. We should just call this era what it is the steroid era and move on. I would say that there are less players in the last 10-15 years that did not take PED's then there are that did. And we should just deal with the fact that all the record that have been set and will be broken by players of this era are somewhat tainted but they are still records and they still count.

Sparty said...

yeah, i know...just very numb to the history set last night, that's all. I got goose bumps watching Gretzky get the goal record, but felt nothing last night watching that ball fly out.

Greg said...

cmfost, if that is your reasoning why dont we all smoke crack for the next year and then look back at this period sentimentally, since everyone was doing it

Geoff said...

I'm glad that he finally broke the record. Now today and probably tomorrow we'll have to hear about his place in history and blah, blah, blah. Then people can shut up about him until he retires. I'm not like mad that he set the record, just don't really care.

In other baseball news, I want to punch Jason Grilli in the face this morning. Thank god he got bailed out. Poor Nate Robertson.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Say what you want about Selig, but baseball is doing the best it ever has in terms of money and fan support despite the overblown steroid problem (nobody cares that NFL players are on steroids for some reason - mainly, I think, because personal accomplishments and statistics in football are reserved for QBs and RBs and aren't held in the same regard)...

So happy Clemens plunked rios...Shelley Duncan is a badass - that slide was awesome and he probably would have destroyed Matt Stairs if he got any closer to A-Rod (he looked to be about a foot and a half taller than stairs). Really impressed by the Yanks retaliation efforts trying to protect their best player. That team is meshing very very well right now. I'd be afraid if I were a Red Sox/Tribe/Tigers/M's fan.

RevScottDeMangeMD said...

Question:

How funny would it be if you caught the ball, wrote "FUCK YOU BARRY BONDS! LOVE, AMERICA!" and threw it back. There is no way they could put that in the Hall of Fame. But I bet some bad ass owner like Mark Cuban would give you lifetime season tickets to their sports team.

Sparty said...

Yanks gotta catch the Sox, I got a steak dinner riding on this!

ryan from boston,ma said...

I will say it,congrats Barry on becoming the all-time HR leader of MLB.I had no reaction last night when I flipped on ESPNews.

J said...

Congrats to Barry Bonds on the breaking the greatest record in all of sports!!

Chris said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Geoff said...

I don't know that we can still call it the greatest record in sports, by the way. It maybe was but now not so much. Time to start naming some new candidates for that honor.

Michael said...

18 majors for best record in sports

Sparty said...

All for that Geoff. I say 56 games in a row with a hit! Or the all time scoring record in basketball. Got to play a long time at a high level to break Kareems record...

Matt said...

Yeah! Stop whining and recognize the history! Let's all take a second and appreciate this moment!

After all, it doesn't matter how you break a record, just that you break it! Even if you cheated, it wasn't ILLEGAL! There's nothing wrong with it if you don't get caught! Who cares about playing the right way? Everybody else is doing it, why can't Barry? We should all just ignore the mounting mountain of evidence, the horrible example it sets for kids, the tremendous letdown for baseball historians, and the degradation of one of the most hallowed records in sports and just be excited we got to see it!

Cheaters rock!

CMFost said...

How about naming a record that will probably never be broken as the best record in sports like Cy Youngs wins total.

Sparty said...

Matt...You do say that he cheated, regardless if it was legal or not, so how could one get excited about seeing a cheater succeed?

Seeing someone's hard work on an level playing field succeed to the ultimate pinacle is cool to see. Like watching Wade Boggs 3000 hit, especially being a Grand Slam, or Cal break the consecutive games record, or Greg Maddux or Tom Glavine's 300th win. That's exciting to see. Last night was sad to watch, watchable, but sad to watch.

Sparty said...

I think the SB record is greater, because it can be broken(but unlikely). the 511 wins is not as great because no one will ever pitch that much because how the game has changed.

Lance A Boyle said...

I loved the question in Barry's post-game interview, asking how it felt that his good buddy, Greg Anderson, was still sitting in prison. Not a word about steroids. Just a question about his friend. Barry wouldn't answer it because it was a "negative" question.

All of baseball's records are a sham and always have been. Blacks didn't play for years. We had a deadball era, which created all the great pitching records. Ted Williams served two tours in wars or he might have broken the record. Babe Ruth spent the first quarter of his career as a pitcher or he might have hit 800 HR. Willie Mays took time out for the armed forces. Tom Seaver pitched for a horrible-hitting team or he might have had 400 wins. Walter Johnson might have had 500. The list goes on and on. Barry's new record is just the final nail in the coffin in the legitimacy of the baseball record book. Unless you break the records down by particular defined eras, they mean absolutely nothing.

J said...

When Jose Canseco wrote "Juiced" in 2005, he brought the issue of steroids in Major League Baseball to the forefront. Now, Canseco has another book due this fall and he promises some juicy info on Alex Rodriguez.

Canseco told WEEI-Radio in Boston on Friday that he has "other stuff" on the Yankees slugger, who he called a "hypocrite" who "was not all he appeared to be."

When asked if A-Rod had used steroids, Canseco told WEEI, "Wait and see."

"Jose has information about A-Rod and the Yankees that will be in the book. But, I am not sure if Jose is willing to disclose it at this point," Canseco's lawyer, Robert O. Saunooke, told The New York Times.

ndyanksfan05 said...

Did anyone else feel awkward watching him cross home plate and basically refuse to hug his son...I felt bad for the kid, he went to go celebrate with his dad and Bonds completely ignored him. He's got his finger up saying "you're #1" and Bonds looks up to the sky and walks right by him - not like he didn't see him, because his son grabbed him and tried to hug him (had his arms around him and everything) but Bonds ignored him and went to his teammates. It was the weirdest thing I've ever seen.

It's a shame steroids ruined this for so many people - i agree that there was no real feeling of excitement, rather just acceptance and then turning the channel. Despite his steroid use (and his being an asshole) he was one of the most talented players in baseball before 98...its a shame he sold his soul for this record.

J said...

Babe Ruth ate bull testicals on a daily basis. And whats in bull testicals? Testosterone :)

GuyInTheCorner said...

The thing is, Bonds is the best player of all time. How he did it is another story. People forget how good he was without the alleged steriod use. In 1998 when they put out the best players of all time list, he was in the mid 50s at age 34. He has 756 homeruns. He will get 3000 hits. He will get 2000 RBI. His career slugging percentae is .607. He has 500 stolen bases. He has been walked 2500 times. He is only 1 short of 600 doubles. He will get 6000 total bases. He is a 14-time all-star and 12-time starter. He is a 7-time MVP in a world where the runner-up has only 3. He has 8 Gold Gloves. He has 12 Silver Sluggers. He is a 2-time batting champ. He will win his 10th on-base title this season. He is a 7-time slugging champ. He once led the lead in RUNS. He holds the single season homerun record. He once led the league in RBI. He is the all time leader in walks and will lead the league for the 12th time this year. He had 12 seasons in which he stole at least 28 bases. He now holds the record for most homeruns by a player after their 40th birthday. He is one behind Babe Ruth for the most multi-homerun games in history.

All you need to hear is 12 Silver Sluggers, 8 Gold Gloves, and 500 stolen bases to know that he was the perfect combination of hitting, fielding, and baserunning that will probably never be seen again.

He is the best player I have ever seen live, on TV, on video, in history, or otherwise. So congrats to Barry Bonds, his family, and the Giants and their fans. You should be very proud that the best player ever wears your uniform.

CMFost said...

hey Sparty how is not a level playing field if a majority of the players are on PED's

kirby077 said...

I'm getting a Bonds jersey today!

Generik420 said...

HEHE.. well I played video games last night and missed the big moment.. YAWN.. I am surprised to hear Hank Aaron did the video tribute, that was very cool and extremely classy. But Dan, I swear Barry needs to put you on some kind of payroll as a public defender or something.. I have to agree with one of the previous posters.. you call B Quinn a d-bag and slurp B Bonds? Sickening really. What I am really curious to see is how the HoF voting goes in a few years. Will Bonds get the McGuire treatment? Bonds basically admitted to taking steroids, just he didn't know they were at the time? Wouldn't that be the ultimate statement if the all time homerun king was not elected on the first ballot? Anyway, it is all moot, as Bonds will be passed by A-Rod in a few years barring some Griffey Jr-esque injury plagued years.

As to the Sox-Yanks.. At this point the Sox may have the easier schedule, but lets be real.. they have to be pissing themselves to see the Yanks within 5 games. Would this not be one of the epic collapses ever if they don't win the East? Similarly, assuming the Yanks and Sox both get to the playoffs, which I think is highly likely to happen.. would the Yanks beating the Sox in a series be vindication for the Sox epic comeback of their championship year? I personally would argue it to rate close to that.. considering all Sox fans had completely written off the Yanks and mocked them most of the season, to only now be nervously watching the standings every day and seeing that double digit lead get down to easily losable.

TBender said...

Nominee for Record most likely to never be broken:

RBI in a season
191 by Wilson in 1930

(And he did it in a 154 game season.)

Sparty said...

my point is that their records are not tainted with steroids. it was their pure skill. you can put the cloud of suspicion over them if you want by saying PEDs instead. Shit, regular coffee can be considered a PED. but i think that is complete and total foolishness.

Matt said...

You know what, while we're at it, can we just get rid of banned substances completely? I mean, really, we're talking about history here! Do we really care if a player is using amphetamines? I mean, so what if it's illegal and kids will think it's a good idea to use them. Who's to say it's not? It gets you into history, man! That's all that's important! Breaking records!

Hey, and while we're at it, what's the big deal with corked bats? I mean, after all, if it helps someone achieve something phenomenal, isn't that worth it? And even if it helps you hit the ball farther, you still have to hit it, so it's not REALLY cheating!

And why can't pitchers grease the ball? If they did, we'd see a lot more strikeouts, and a lot more records being broken!

I'm sick and tired of all these "standards" and ideas about "setting good examples so that kids and people don't put themselves in situations where they can be hurt." Is that really more important than making history? If we listened to that point of view, we wouldn't have gotten to see a muted, overhyped moment featuring a video message from one of baseball's greatest players, as THE GREATEST baseball player of all time celebrated his place in history before he's indicted!

We need to get our priorities straight, as a country.

Viva la performance enhancing drugs!

Beetle said...

Hmmmm...Dale Murphy says that Barry Bonds sets a terrible example for kids? Well, Dale Murphy is a Mormon, which in and of itself, sets a terrible example for kids.

Jen said...

Someone I know in MLB said it's crazy now...everyone is on something and now trying to get off. He's glad they are looking for PED's and not mary jane.

Jen said...

Oh, congrats to Bonds. I'm not a fan of his, but hey, he has now hit the most home runs, even if he has doubled in size since his rookie year.

I sure hope we don't have to watch every at-bat until he retires! UGH.

Boomhauertjs said...

Bonds needs to play for the Yankees next year. A perfect ending to baseball's biggest villan's career.

CMFost said...

Almost 100% certain that if Bonds plays next year it will be in the AL as a DH and more then likely with the Yankees to replace A-Frauds bat.

CMFost said...

Hope Clemens enjoys his 5 game suspension or do you think since it is Clemens they will let him off the hook for throwing at Rios.

Sparty said...

so what are the chances we change the subject? We have been talking about this ever since he hit 73. Let the four letter talk about this all day...

CMFost said...

As a Red Sox Fan I am not worried about the Yankees catching them. I think the lead shrinking has had a lot to do with the Red Sox having a far tougher scheduled then the Yankees since the All-Star break. This weekend when the Yankees play the Tigers and the Red Sox play the Orioles will be a telling weekend.

David said...

wow, I'd just stay in 8 or so more years, Ripken style, and go for 1,000 Home Runs. I would make everybody call me Mr. 1,000.

ToddTheJackass said...

These West Coast games really have taken a lot of life out of me, so here's a totally abbreviated Studs and Duds from me today:

Studs:
1. Barry Bonds
2. Todd Helton
3. Jake Westbrook
4. Bronson Arroyo
5. Justin Upton

Duds:
1. Rick Vanden Hurk
2. Oliver Perez
3. Jamie Walker
4. Tim Wakefield
5. Julio Lugo

Honorary Stud: Mike Bacsik

CycleDan said...

Now that Bonds hit is 756th, we can get back to my favorite thing about baseball - pennant races!

Yanks 5 back of Boston - but even as a Yankees fan, I don't think there is much chance they catch them. Like someone posted, the Sox have a much easier schedule. I think the Yanks will get the WC though.

Clev/Detroit race is neck in neck, Seattle may still catch the Angels, Cubs/Brewers, Braves/Phillies/Mets NL West with 4 teams within 4 games - we are in for a great finale!

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

5,714 K's and 7 No-Hitters are the 2 greatest records in baseball now because no one is ever going to sniff those numbers both Johnson and Clemens are 1,000 K's behind Nolan Ryan.

CMFost said...

What about the fact the Brett Favre is going to break some of Marino's records this year? QB TD's and Yards are pretty high on the chart of records.

CycleDan said...

Toronto continually throwing at A-Rod has become ridiculous now. Yeah, A-Rod screamed something to make their 3rd baseman drop a ball over 1 month ago now. Big deal, get over it. If A-Rod dropped a ball because someone yelled something, they would be all over A-Rod.

They had a series at Yankee stadium to retaliate if they had wanted. They threw at him in the first game, then they threw at him in the 2nd game last night. Just getting silly now. Clemens had to retaliate. If Torre gets suspended, then they have to suspend the Blue Jay manager as well.

The best revenge will be to have the Yanks sweep them today and A-Rod hit one over the fence. Yanks have a pennant race to worry about, Toronto has to worry about ... well, hitting A-Rod.

Sparty said...

The Wild Card in baseball was the greatest rule change in the sports history. The excitement it makes for more teams each and every year is awesome. I think even Yank fans would be satisfied with the WC.

CMFost said...

I have a question for everyone, What records do you consider unbreakable?

Easy one - Cy's 511 Wins, 59 wins in a season by Old Hoss Radbourn,

ToddTheJackass said...

Sensing a Tim Wakefield meltdown, I instinctively tuned in to ESPN2 to watch Barry hit the home run. I said an audible 'wow', and even with the implications, the 800 pound steroid-laden gorilla, etc, it still was a bit of an impressive moment to watch. I mean, even with all of the steroid implications, I think it's still really cool that I witnessed (on TV) both McGwire's 62nd home run and Barry's 756th. Even if they're tainted, it's still witnessing history.

The Hank Aaron message was also fantastic, and showed a ton of class from the already classy Hank Aaron. And the Mike Bacsik interview where he was joking around about hanging out with Barry, etc., was pretty funny. That dude also came away a winner for pitching to Barry.

As per Sox/Yankees, it's not the Red Sox pissing it away so much as the Yankees just playing unbelievable baseball. All along everyone said that the Yankees probably wouldn't have a shot at catching the Red Sox since they'd have to play around .650 baseball... well the Yankees have been doing that. The Red Sox have been sloppy the past 2 days, but have actually played pretty well recently overall, if not, then the lead over the Yankees would be really, really small.

Brian in Oxford said...

Was it before or after midnight last night? THIS is why we have East Coast bias. I was long since asleep before he hit it.

Eric said...

The career home run record, alongside the +61 single-season breakers, is now a meaningless record. Its not all on Barry. He's just the posterboy for a bad era of baseball. Anytime this record is mentioned, there will be the 'yeah, but they were cheating' tag tied to it. He knows he cheated to get there, and he knows Hank and the Babe didn't. I hope for a split moment he feels some guilt. I'm sure he'll try to stay in the game long enough to think he would've broken it with or without the 'help'.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

cmfost the pitching records are obviously going to be the unbreakable ones.

Career Wins-Cy Young 511
Career Losses-Cy Young 316
Career Complete Games-Cy Young 749
Career Shutouts-Walter Johnson 110

The offensive records that are untouchable are:

Career Triples-Sam Crawford 309
Season Triples-Chief Wilson 36
Stolen Bases-Rickey Henderson 1,406 career and 130 Season
Career Hits-Pete Rose 4,256
Career RBIs-Hank Aaron 2,297

CycleDan said...

The career HR record was the greatest record in American sports since it was considered untouchable. Ruth broke the record of about 130 career HRs in the 1920s and it stood until Aaron, decades later. Now the HR record will probably be broken another 2 times at least in the next 20 years.

I don't think I will see Ricky's stolen base record broken or Ryan's strikeout record.

Sparty said...

whoa, the rbi and hits record are breakable. If Jeter continues to play later into his career, he has the best shot to break the hits record (already better than rose at this point), and A-Rod has a legit shot at the RBI record.

verbal97 said...

The RBIs record will be broken and I wouldn't say that Pete Rose's record is untouchable (at least I hope not anyway).

To all the people who think Bonds is the best player of all time, I have one thing to say to you...He was #55 of the All-Century team in 1999. This is either before or just as he started juicing. And to say that it isn't illegal is false. Testing wasn't done, but steroids in baseball has been illegal for a little while and that's without mentioning that it's against federal law. Today is the saddest day for baseball since Aug. 1994.

Jen said...

130 SBs in a season is MURDEROUS...that will never be grazed, let alone past!

Sparty said...

i think the SB record is pretty safe. Kruk pretty much made the point that no manager will take the bat out of his hitters hands this day and age in baseball that often. crawford and reyes could do it, have the ability, but just won't get the chances to.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Jeter is 33 and he has close to 2300 hits if he averages 200 hits until he is 40 he is sitting around 3700 or so and that is still 500 hits short. It is possible but I think it is highly unlikely. A-Rod is close to 1500 RBI right now and he has a shot to get to 2297 which is a little less than 800 but we will see. I do think ARod has a much better chance to break the RBI record than Jeter has of breaking the hits record.

CycleDan said...

flvy,
Agree except for RBIs. I think A-Rod is on pace to break that.

Sparty said...

i do not think jeter will catch rose, but it is a record that can be broken, and he has a legit shot. hits only have to travel a couple inches, so many ways of getting them. as oppose to hitting the ball at least 312 ft 800 times.

CycleDan said...

A-Rod at 1456 RBIs right now. He is 32 years old. 100 RBIs per year will obliterate the record by the time he is 40. Considering he has 109 this year and has had over 100 for 10 straight years, that is a pretty good chance if he doesn't get hurt or seriously tail off.

ToddTheJackass said...

Alright, so continuing something from yesterday, I've been trying to think of good fantasy football names. The best ones (20 letters and under) I have so far are:

1. TheFidoVickXperience
2. BelichksHomelessArmy
3. Crucify TD Jesus
4. Pray4Mojo
5. Praise Jeebus

Qwagmire said...

I had to watch the friggin WNBA cause they went into 2OT's (who. cares.) until I got to the Giants game.

Thats 10 minutes of my life Ill never get back.

Sparty said...

my fantasy team name for the last 4 years has been Game Day Sleeper. 3 Super Bowls in a row, no title. that is the biggest reason i keep playing. I am the Bills of my league.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

After 13 seasons Rose was at 2547. This will be Jeter's 13th season and he will end in the 2350-2380 range which is still close to 200 behind Rose.

Jed said...

For what it's worth, it was raining in Denver on Monday when the fan turnout was low.

verbal97 said...

The thing counting against Jeter is that hits are harder to come by with the smaller fields and the more athletic fielders than in Rose's day. I still say that it can be broken someday (not necessarily by Jeter). It's a shame Ichiro didn't play his whole career here, he'd have a good shot.

malcolm said...

A) Does anybody else get the feeling Goodell or Stern would have found a classy way to handle Selig's situation?

B) I think you're right to doubt the "pitcher who gave up 756" label, Dan. Can anyone even remember on the spot who gave up Aaron's 716?

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Malcolm, Al Downing gave up 715 but for 716 I have no idea since that was not the number needed to break the record

badly drawn boykins (fka spinachdip) said...

NBC won't get rid of the puff pieces for one simple reason - chicks dig it.

See, NBC figures the traditional sports watching demo, i.e. men, will tune in anyway. But NBC also needs women to tune in for the Games to be worth their time and rights fees.

More importantly, while women may not watch the Olympics as much as men, they do watch NBC's prime time shows more, and there's no better forum to promote the fall lineup than a big event in the summer.

Women have shown that they'll get more into an event if they feel like they know the competitors. And men, they'll just tune in for the crashes and explosions and shit. Yeah, it's painting with a broad brush, but psychophically speaking, it's true.

So until men and women suddenly decide change how their brains are wired, the puff pieces will stay.

And for what it's worth, they've cut back a lot on the "plausibly live" broadcasts since the 1996 Games.

CMFost said...

Jeter will not break the hits record, He will probably retire a long time before that. I see Jeter finishing his career in the low 3000's. He is 33 currently and at most considering all of his accomplishments I do not see him playing more then 5-7 more seasons. He would need to at a minimum play another 10 seasons to get to Rose. And I do not see him playing into his 40's.

Rico said...

Basbeall feat that won't be seen ever again: batting over .400

Sparty said...

.400 is doable

ryan from boston,ma said...

A must read on espn.com by ESPN Ombudsman..her take on Sportscenter's Who's Now.

champ23145 said...

@Ryan
Thanks.

"No single topic has ever drawn the volume and intensity of unsolicited complaints to either my or my predecessor's mailbox that this sports popularity contest has. On the other hand, the Who's Now elimination tournament to determine the "Ultimate Sport Star" was one of the most trafficked user-participation features ever posted on ESPN.com."


Some good comments by the viewers, I liked: "SportsCenter is where I, and many others, get my news, highlights, etc. I don't find it the appropriate forum for opinion and antics."

And the ombudsperson's opinion:

QUOTE
"With all genuine and due respect for the SportsCenter producers who try daily to find a balance between sports news and entertainment, I think that SportsCenter's big tent is bursting at the seams from the strain of trying to reconcile irreconcilable audiences and values within one show."

I wish ESPN would consider adding to its lineup a crisp, half-hour, nightly news version of SportsCenter -- just news and highlights, without gimmicks or sponsored segments or recaps, without self- or cross-promotion, with a consistent anchor team accountable for a consistent tone, with spare to no use of instant commentary. A prime-time island of clean, clear, straightforward news on which ESPN's journalistic credibility could securely rest.

CMFost said...

here is a link to the obundsman article,



click here

CMFost said...

"I wish ESPN would consider adding to its lineup a crisp, half-hour, nightly news version of SportsCenter -- just news and highlights, without gimmicks or sponsored segments or recaps, without self- or cross-promotion, with a consistent anchor team accountable for a consistent tone, with spare to no use of instant commentary. A prime-time island of clean, clear, straightforward news on which ESPN's journalistic credibility could securely rest."


Amen - I really hope they listen and create this.

GuyInTheCorner said...

Believe it or not, we had the unbreakable records in baseball discussion in this space on December 11, 2006.

www.danshanoff.com/2006/12/monday-
1211-quickieladainian-rules.html

For those too lazy to look up the list, it is...

Career Stealing Home: 54 (Ty Cobb)
Consecutive Games Reaching Base: 84 (Tedd Williams 1949)
Inside-The-Park Homeruns in a season: 12 (Sam Crawford 1901)
Career On Base Percentage: .481 (Ted Williams)
On Base Percentage in a season: .609 (Barry Bonds 2004)
Career Batting Average: .366 (Ty Cobb)
Batting Average in a season: .440 (Hugh Duffy 1894)
Triples in a season: 36 (Cheif Wilson 1912)
Career Walks: 2,795 (Nolan Ryan)
Consecutive Innings Without a Walk: 84.1 (Bill Fischer 1962)
Career Complete Games: 749 (Cy Young)
Complete Games in a season: 75 (Will White 1879)
Complete Games by a Rookie: 66 (Jim Devlin 1876)
Career Starts: 815 (Cy Young)
Career Innings Pitched: 7,356 (Cy Young)
Innings Pitched in a season: 680 (Will White 1879)
Innings Pitched by a Rookie: 378 (Irv Young 1905)
Career Losses: 316 (Cy Young)
Losses in a season: 48 (John Coleman 1883)
Losses by a Rookie: 35 (Jim Devlin 1876)
Career Shutouts: 110 (Walter Johnson)
Career Strikeouts: 5,714 (Nolan Ryan)
Strikeouts in a season: 441 (Old Hoss Radbourn 1884)
Career Wild Pitches: 277 (Nolan Ryan)
Career Wins: 511 (Cy Young)
Wins in a month: 15 (John Clarkson 1885)
Wins in a season: 59 (Old Hoss Radbourn 1884)
Wins by a Rookie: 47 (Al Spalding 1876)

and if you don't recall, it caused this quote...

"Dude, you are my new favorite commenter."

-Big D

That was after an intense discussion on the finer points of one William Henry Keeler's career. Ah, good times.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

A couple of guys have flirted with .400 but always fade in September, Brett, Carew and Helton being the most recent. We will never know what Tony Gwynn who was batting .394 would have done in 1994. If anyone is going to do it it would probably be Ichiro but he always seems to start slow and then come on once June starts. I remember reading Ted Williams's My Turn at Bat and he said what helped him the most in 1941 was him not starting at the beginning of the season because of a ankle injury or something to that affect. He pinch hitted or played sparingly and once it had warmed up he really started to take off that year. Also worth noting is that Williams batted .388 in 1957 that is only a handful of hits and he is at .400 he also said if he had the speed of Mickey Mantle he could have beat out some of the infield hits.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

"Asked how divided he thought the SportsCenter's audience was over Who's Now, Jacobs said, "We don't really know. We clearly went into this with the belief that a majority of our audience is interested in both on the field and off. I don't think there is just one person reading about Tom Brady's personal life in 'Us Weekly.' I think there's a large number of people who care about Tom Brady and Gisele [Bundchen]."

Who else here cares about Tom Brady and his life off the field?

CMFost said...

As a Patriots fan the only thing I care about is what Tom does on the field and that he keeps in self away from anything that would keep him off the field in his free time.

CMFost said...

You know the obdunsmen points out one of the main problems with TV Coverage of Sports, Sportscenter and Sports Radio. There are way to many sponsored segments, too many drop promoting something else and just not enough coverage of the event.
I know in Boston the NESN TV coverage of the Red Sox has been going downhill since the new ownership group took over, there way to many drops and way to many actors and others in the booth during the game and it does not let the annoucers call the game and talk baseball. We also here in Boston have WEEI and there 20 Minute long commercial breaks as well as every interview being sponsored by someone.

Generik420 said...

John Olerud flirted with .400 for the bulk of a season about a decade or so ago.. I definitely think someone will come along and do it again. Winning the triple crown seems much more unlikely to me. Todays premier baseball players seem to either hit for average but not have great power.. or hit a bushel of homeruns but have a ton of strikeouts.. Ken Griffey Jr seemed to balance all that well in his prime.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Olerud flirted in 1993 I believe but he finished at .363. Andres Gallarahga finished at .370 that year. You are right about the Triple Crown is damn near impossible now. Junior Griffey did have exceptional numbers in the mid-90s but the one player who put together everything as far as power, average and RBI was Frank Thomas check out his stats at the beginning of his career when he was probably the most complete hitter in the game. I know Sheffield flirted with it when he was in San Diego narrowly missing with the HRs and RBI.

jhawkjjm said...

I love the new ombudsman's articles. Unfortunately I don't think ESPN listens to any of it.

As for the triple crown, wasn't Bagwell making a run at it in the strike shortened season? He's a player that you can only wonder what would have been if he hadn't gotten hurt so much near the end of his career.

Natsfan74 said...

Derrek Lee made a good run at the Triple Crown in 2005 for the Cubs. He lead the NL in batting and finished top 5 in HR and RBI. I think he was even leading in all three around the All-Star Break.

I do not think anyone will hit .400 again.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

He was jhawk he was 2nd to Gwynn in Average, 2nd to Matt Williams in HRs and leading the NL in RBI. One problem was his hand was broken after a HBP and had there not been a strike he would have missed the rest of the season.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

If anyone has a chance to do it in today's game it would probably be Pujols. I would say that A-Rod or Manny could have done it earlier in their careers but they do not hit for a high enough average even though they both still hit over .300

bkelly126 said...

"I wish ESPN would consider adding to its lineup a crisp, half-hour, nightly news version of SportsCenter -- just news and highlights, without gimmicks or sponsored segments or recaps, without self- or cross-promotion, with a consistent anchor team accountable for a consistent tone, with spare to no use of instant commentary. A prime-time island of clean, clear, straightforward news on which ESPN's journalistic credibility could securely rest."

I remember that as SportsCenter from my youth, but isn't that what ESPNews is supposed to be?

Big D said...

Late to the party today, but my nominees for records that won't likely fall (and I think this was a topic covered a while back either on ESPN.com or SI.com)

Nolan Ryan's Career Strikeouts & No-Hitters
Cy Young's Career wins & Complete Games
Cal Ripken's Iron Man Streak
Rickey Henderson's career steals (I think 130 in a season is theoretically reachable, especially for a guy like Jose Reyes or someone with his combination of speed and OBP ability)
And, of course...
Johnny Van Der Meer's back-to-back no hitters, since you'd have to throw 3 in a row to "break" the record.

Sparty said...

as long as he doesn't become a blimp. miguel cabrera has a shot.

Sparty said...

at the triple crown that is

Lawdog1214 said...

Re: Bonds

All I can think of concerning Bonds is the Red Stripe Sweater commercial

"Boo large-headed friend. Hooray Beer!"

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

What do you think Celtics fans?

CMFost said...

Danny don't do it. There is no need to have a craptastic player like Reggie Miller on the Celtics. Do not waste the salary cap space you can find better players.

Big D said...

@ cmfost:

Are you kidding? Assuming he signs a deal for the veteran minimum (which, let's face it, is the most he'd get from any team), he's just one more threat that can't be left unguarded. He's essentially Ray Allen, minus the ankle injuries and plus about 10 years. And he's another guy with that driving force - the desire to win a ring.

Seriously, if nothing else, he's a bona fide scorer that simply can't be left alone when defenses double team KG and either Pierce or Allen, whichever one is on the floor with him.

Again - everything assumes he doesn't demand a ridiculous contract.

Big D said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ToddTheJackass said...

Well, the Celtics certainly do have a much shorter bench now, right?

Anyway, this all seems like Ainge read Simmons' column talking about how shooting guards over 32 never have any success with the lone exception of Reggie Miller. Danny must be thinking that still applies, even though Reggie is 42.

The one awesome highlight of this would be the quotes from Reggie, as neither of the current trio seems too good a candidate for giving a funny quote to the paper.

Has Reggie been out of basketball for one year or two?

Big D said...

Two other things, and then I'm offline for the rest of the day:

1) Additional Dud for you Todd - Jason Isringhausen. Turned a tight 1-0 game into a 4-0 Padres win in the 9th.

2) And I know absolutely no one will believe this, but who cares... I watched Bonds' first at-bat last night, frozen rope double to right center. Then I turned off the TV and went to sleep. No word of a lie, I had a dream that Bonds hit #756 about an hour after I fell asleep... woke me up in a cold sweat. I turned on the TV to see that it had just happened about 10 minutes earlier.

Is it weird that I'm seeing Barry Bonds in my sleep? Damn you ESPN!

CMFost said...

Big D - I am not kidding I do not want some 42 year old, has not play a game in 2+ years, my sister is a better player then me has been on the Celtics. Miller is not what the Celtics need, they do not need another shooter. they need a Center and a back up PG that is it.

Aaron said...

According to an ESPN report, Coker is out because of substance abuse problems (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2965321). If that's true, then I can see him being out until the administration lets him back, assuming he completes any rehab he is required to do.

As for Bonds, I hope he's ready to be marginalized by June 2013, when A-Rod blasts #800 into Monument Park in New Yankee Stadium. From that point on, A-Rod will be the Greatest...Player...Ever....even without a ring. And once A-Rod kills Bonds' record, it'll never be touched again, within our lifetimes. He has 500 now - figure he's just REACHING his power prime, meaning an AVERAGE of 50-60 dingers a year for the next six years, and then a slow downward trend till he retires at 41ish. By August 2014, he'll have close to 900 HR's, assuming he avoids major DL problems, and doing a victory tour around the AL East.

The Yankees-Blue Jays rivalry isn't over. 19 games a year, and A-Rod isn't going anywhere soon.

chitown italian said...

Yoo Hoo: Joe DiMaggio----56 games hit record. The closest to ever come to it was Pete Rose at 44 games. That was still two weeks of hitting short.

That will never be broken in today's day and age.

Not to mention Ripken's games played. Can't be touched.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

A Top 10 list of the best teams of the 64 NCAA tournament era. The Dan Wagon's team is 4th but I would have placed them 5th behind the 85 Hoyas.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Brainfart this year's Florida team is ahead of 85 Georgetown for the simple fact they won and G'Town lost to Nova got my Hoya teams confused.

GuyInTheCorner said...

I know I'm a Terp homer but, common. Steve Blake, Juan Dixon, Byran Mouton, Chris Wilcox, Lonny Baxter with Drew Nicolas on the bench doesn't do it? Seriously? I went to look at the list and expected to see them at 7th or so but it didn't even occur to me that they wouldn't be on there at all.

futurelegendvinceyoung said...

Guy I agree with you about that Maryland team they should have been on there and the '88 Oklahoma runner-up team should have been left off. By the way this is coming from a die hard Duke fan but I loved Juan Dixon.

TBender said...

I mentioned it upthread, but I guess everyone thinks it can be broken...

RBI in a Season - 191, Wilson, 1930

The closest anyone has gotten to it is Manny at 165 in '99. In fact, out of the top 20, he is the only one on the list since 1938. So even in the "juiced player" era no one has gotten closer than 26 (which is a good month).
Single Season RBI leaders


57 consecutive games with a hit is more doable than that IMO.

Tony Eusebio had 24 games, as a part-timer in 2000. Someone is bound to do it, especially since it doesn't matter about the player playing consecutive games.

GuyInTheCorner said...

If you look at the list that I posted you will notice that I did not put 56 up there. I did however use Ted Williams' 84 consecutive games reaching base. Bonds did go 58 on 2003 and he gets walked virtually every day but still came way short. 44 is closer to 56 than 58 to 84.

Anyway, 84 games reaching base is more impressive and better than 56 games with a hit. By now we all know that on base percentage is more important than batting average anyway.

Brian in Oxford said...

The measure of a great team is not necessarily that they won, but by what it took to beat them.

That's why I give all props to the 85 Hoyas and 91 Runnin' Rebels. Better than most actual championship teams (this means you, Dan)