Wednesday, October 24, 2007

Wednesday 10/24 A.M. Quickie:
Rox top Sox, Mattingly, Durant, KSK, More!

Today's Names to Know: Colorado Rockies, Josh Beckett, Tim Wakefield, Don Mattingly, San Diego, Kissing Suzy Kolber, Kevin Durant, Free Darko, Hoover, Bizarro Sports Journalism and More!

UPDATE: Remember the (more-than-usual) self-loathing I went through during the exercise of filling out my BlogPoll Top 25 ballot (and doing my Deadspin column this week)? EDSBS' rank-what-you-see ballsiness in his poll this week makes me feel even worse. I tip my hat to you, Orson, for being the man I apparently lack the capacity to be.

MLB: World Series Rox vs. Sox, Game 1 in Boston
. I made my pick earlier this week, and I'm sticking with it: Rockies in 6, with the Red Sox taking the two games that postseason legend Josh Beckett starts. The Red Sox are powerful, but the Rockies are working a momentum -- a mojo -- that has never been seen in baseball before. I'll go with the team that has won 20 of 21 and hasn't lost a game in the postseason. Speaking of which...

Must-Read 1: Rob Neyer, my favorite baseball analyst and writer of all time, ranks the Rockies' run as the No. 3 "miracle" in baseball history, behind the Red Sox ALCS in 2004 and DiMaggio's 56-game hit streak. That sounds about right. (h/t Postman E)

Must-Read 2: Rox' 21/22, cont'd. The WSJ's Carl Bialik* breaks down the Rockies' 21/22 in his Numbers Guy column. Fascinating read. (h/t Postman R)

(* - Carl took over managing the Varsity Letters Reading Series from me)

Tim Wakefield left off Boston's World Series roster after shoulder issues: Good news for the Rockies; he baffled Colorado earlier this season.

Rockies Tickets Snafu, Cont'd: Well, the good news is that the team worked out the kinks in the online sales system. The bad news is that I couldn't get in to buy tickets, nor could anyone I know or heard about. (So just who DID get tickets? Oh, wait: They're on StubHub and CraigsList.)

UPDATE: Rudy Giuliani comes out for the Red Sox. OK, I have been called a bandwagoneer and a fairweather fan in my time, but it cannot possibly compare to the Yankees' uber-fan Rudy Giuliani saying he will be rooting for the Red Sox in the World Series. For Yankees fans, I cannot imagine a greater treachery. You cannot claim "AL allegiance" -- not when it comes to Yankees fans and the Red Sox (or vice versa). I think Rudy should lose his Yankees cred entirely. Is this REALLY what America would want in a President?

Yankees Manager Watch: Don Mattingly interviews, and reportedly it went really well. That gives the Yankees a tough choice: Go with the nominally more experienced guy (Girardi) or the entirely green, never-managed-before (but coached for four years) popular choice (Mattingly). I think they SHOULD go with Girardi, but WILL go with Mattingly. It certainly is the bolder choice.

NFL: San Diego relocates to Arizona. It's Wednesday of game week. Where are the Chargers going to play this weekend's game against the Texans, because it sure seems like they aren't going to be able to do it in San Diego at their home stadium. Can they move the game up to L.A.? At least fans can easily get to the game; the diversion would be welcome, I'm sure.

NFL: It's official! The Draft's first round will drop from 15 to 10 minutes. It's a fantastic move; as popular as the Draft has become, its first round really dragged on too long. If the NBA can do its first round in 5 minutes per pick, I never understood why the NFL needed three times that amount. It's not like teams haven't prepped.

Pats 16-0 vs. Fins 0-16: Kudos to Fanhouse's Ryan Wilson for picking up on a Sun-Sentinel piece by David Hyde about whether the stunner this season would be less the Pats going 16-0 and more the Fins going 0-16. Either way, we're talking about history, but in the NFL's Era of Parity, it just might be more spectacular to see the Fins go 0-16, particularly given that it would be the perfect bookend to the Pats' other brand of perfection.

Must-Read: KSK understands me. I'm an unabashed fan of the guys at Kissing Suzy Kolber (wow, is this week about the depth of my many admirations, or what?). They had a post on Monday that might be my favorite post -- on any subject, on any blog -- of all time. When you read it, you'll know why. It's as if Big Daddy Drew entered my mind and made sense of it all.

Oh, and it's been mentioned in the Comments, but I should mention it here: You've got to see their take on Easterbrook's latest column, too, which is receiving some of the worst reviews of any column I have seen in a long time. (And people used to ding ME for overreaching...) UPDATE: Wow, that's quite a trick that Easterbrook pulled: He managed to unite New England sports fans and the universe of us who hate New England sports (and their sports fans). I never thought it would happen, but Easterbrook accomplished it. New England fans, I join you in your mockery of him! UPDATE 2: Actually, I find the Pats far more enjoyable when they are making the league their Gimp -- including the TD run-ups -- than before. As someone who traffics in superlatives, I can't help but root for 19-0. Because, let's face it: You hate the '72 Dolphins way more than you hate the '07 Pats.

NBA: Kevin Durant sprains his ankle and might miss the season opener, dampening one of the biggest storylines of the season. If Durant was hurt in any meaningful way, it would really spike this season's rookie-class potential, although in a rookie year that should be prefixed as "Besides Kevin Durant..." two rookies who seem ready to make an instant impact are the "Two Als": Horford (Hawks) and Thornton (Clippers).

NBA Preview: Free Darko rules. I'm ramping up my NBA season preview coverage tomorrow, but in the meantime, I want to point you to the latest series from Free Darko, which has produced what could go down as my favorite NBA gimmick of all time:

Those mad geniuses have produced a preview of EVERY SINGLE NBA PLAYER. And, seriously, they pulled it off. "Where Amazing Happens," indeed:

Here's A-F.

Here's G-O.

Bravo, fellas.

Prep Football: Hoover cheats? (Yawn.) So if you watched Hoover (Alabama) High School on "Two-a-Days" and said, "If there was ever a lock in my life, it's that this program is corrupt," collect your prize.

Sports Media: Bizarro Sports Journalism. This could become the next hot trend in sports media. Publishing the story with the opposite result of what the writer thought would happen. You know beat guys and columnists all do it, even if they just play around with an angle or a lead paragraph (and don't actually write the entire thing).

Given unlimited space on the internet, the never-ending appetite for blog content by traditional sports media and the guaranteed page views for such a sensationalized idea, I could see an entire industry being spun from this. Call it "Bizarro Sports Journalism." (So: Who's going to start the first "Bizarro" sports blog that deals entirely with the opposite of what is happening in reality?)

Last thought on the World Series: The Quickie/Shanoff Curse might just be the thing that brings the Rockies' run to a halt. If any fictitious force can do it, it's that.

-- D.S.

157 comments:

GuyInTheCorner said...

Dan-

I still can't believe you are picking the Rockies here. You must really enjoy being wrong.

The difference in conotations of "pitching" and "hitting" between the AL and NL are about to be exposed on a very big stage.

Boston said...

Loved the KSK link. The debate about being a 'real' fan was hilarious. No one cares what hat people have on at games outside of the bitching on internet blogs and Simmons. I don't know where the venom comes from about that stuff, but it's not at the games. Pink just makes it easier to pick out cute fans to talk to -- if she can talk baseball, you'd be surprised how little you care about the color of her hat.

pv845 said...

@ Guy: I thought people said the same thing last year and the NL team won? Just thinking.

Go Rockies!

nooch said...

man, that ksk article is tough to read...but i would say half of it is real, the other half, stereotyped for entertainment...but, honestly, if given the choice of having the shit losing teams of the past, or what NE has now...I'll take now every time

Sarge said...

Who's going to start the first "Bizarro" sports blog that deals entirely with the opposite of what is happening in reality?

Doesn't ESPN have this covered?

Big D said...

I'm almost afraid to click the KSK link. Knowing BDD's niche for cruel and unusual satire, I'm not sure I'm properly prepared for that read yet this morning.

Maybe after lunch.



And where was this vitriol for the ticket resellers on StubHub last week when you slammed the patriots for demanding the SH turn over their subscriber's names? If I remember correctly, StubHub last week was a legit place for a hard working honest American toturn around his tickets to another of the same ilk.

Flippity-floppity, floppity-flip (to borrow a phrase from WEEI).

Boston said...

....but Dan wasn't a Rockies fan last week.

Matt T said...

Dan,
Your boy Cuban got kicked off Dancing last night.

rafael said...

Girardi would be the best choice. He's won with an average team and horrible management.
That should prepare him perfectly for the Yankees. Mattingly will be toast.

CMFost said...

Ok, Here is my world series pick, and before you even start yes it is some what a homer pick but it also based on who I think is the superior team.


RED SOX in 4

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...

I realize this is a bit off-topic, but I saw something this morning that really stuck in my craw. It was Easterbrook's piece on ESPN.com titled "Good vs. Evil," and the first thought that popped into my head was(pardon my French): "Are you fucking kidding me?" It's a goddamn football game, not Armageddon. The world will continue to turn after November 4. It's bullshit like this that makes me steer clear of ESPN unless there's an ACTUAL sporting event on, and even then, my television's usually on mute. Congratulations, ESPN, you're managing to KILL THE JOY OF SPORTS.

Luke Bell said...

Please please PLEASE let the Rockies sweep the Sox, with an average score of 15-1. I thought I hated the Yankees when they were winning titles, but the Sox/Pats annoyance is much much worse. Thanks for ruining that 86 year karma, Boston.

Luke Bell said...

The Easterbrook piece was extreme, but is it not true? The Patriots have gone from the non flashy, do things the right way, team more important than individual style to complete assholes. There is no justification for running up the score like that. That whole "no lead is safe in the NFL" line is bogus. You consider yourself the best team in the league, with a huge lead over a winless team with Cleo Lemon as the quarterback and their best player is out with an injury, and you are worried about them coming back? Really? The only chance for a comeback is if you continue to throw the ball (which of course, they did, because they are the Patriots and they run up the score). If there was any karma in the world, Tom Brady would have had a career ending injury after he came back into the game with the huge lead in the 4th quarter.

Adam said...

If the Yankees want to be relevant again they must hire Leitch to replace Torre.

Geoff said...

cmfost picks Sox in 4. By game 4 he will have given up on them. Then by game 7 when the Sox won he will claim he never gave up on them at all and that he was just being a realist.

CMFost said...

Luke - What was the score of the bears and lions game going into the 4th quarter and how many points did they score to come back and win. What was the score of the texans/titans game this weekend and how many point did the texans score in the 4th to tie the game.

The point is this is PROFESSIONAL sports there is no such thing as running up the score. It is not like college or high school or even little league when you can one team that is so much better then the other that they do not have a chance.

In PROFESSIONAL sports you play every game to win and you play hard until the end. This Patriots team is no different other then the level of talent then there other teams. Do you see Brady stepping outside of the team and on every commericial on TV? Do you see the Patriots players getting into trouble or saying bad things about the other teams.

TBender said...

The difference in conotations of "pitching" and "hitting" between the AL and NL are about to be exposed on a very big stage.


"Detroit in 3."

Matt T said...

To Luke Bell:

The Texans were down 28 in the 4th quarter with their backup Sage Rosenfels and went ahead of the Titans before the came back.

That game, in the same weekend as people bitching about the Pats running up the score kind of weakens that arguement.

CMFost said...

The Easterbrook piece was a piece of garbage like the rest of his writing, it is just more prove that ESPN has almost no talents writers. Easterbrooks whole thing this season as been anti-patriots.

CMFost said...

sorry geoff but that no going to happen, this will be just like 2004 when the Red Sox take the momentum of their comeback and sweep the weaker team out of the world series.

TBender said...

Do you see Brady stepping outside of the team and on every commericial on TV? Do you see the Patriots players getting into trouble or saying bad things about the other teams.

If you can't defend your team, slam someone else's.

Steve said...

CMFost, maybe Easterbrook turned on the Patriots because they deserve it. Everything about the Patriots this year screams we're a bunch of arrogant jerks, fuck you all. Considering how much Easterbrook has slobbed Belichick's knob in previous years, he must be acting like a real dick to get Easterbrook to turn on him like this.

You should probably go read the KSK piece. Drew was talking about you.

Geoff said...

Just like they were the stronger team and were going to sweep the Tribe, right?

CMFost said...

the point is bender I do not have to defend my team, they go out play the game and win. They do very little trash talking, they do very little endorsement but yet people rip them for running up the score, yet we see large comebacks in the NFL all the time.

The simple point is if you do not want patriots to score late in the game play defense and try and stop them.

Tiny said...

Genuine Question; Can someone please explain to me whats wrong with "running up the score" in professional sport?

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...

@ luke:

My issue of contention with the piece is the hyperbole. As I said earlier, it's simply a football game, not WWIII or Armageddon. Is it a high-profile, highly-anticipated matchup? Absolutely. Is it the be-all, end-all of existence? No. Not even close.

Mark said...

Steve,

KSK also has a post about how completely ridiculous the Easterbrook column is...

CMFost said...

Tiny in my view there is No such thing as running up the score in PROFESSIONAL sports.

GuyInTheCorner said...

I understand that St. Louis won the Series last year over Detroit. What everyone who watches baseball realizes is that it was a bunch of luck. Could the Rockies get lucky and beat the Sox? Sure. They have been very lucky until now. I'm not saying they aren't a good team. But the same thing stands like last year.

The Sox/Tigers are better than the Rockies/Cards. This is not in any way debateable. If you watch baseball you know this is fact. The thing is that in baseball a lot of things tend to be luck. Forget a series, take a whole season.

I saw every team in baseball play more than once and I watched Baseball Tonight about 5 times a week on average. The worst team in baseball was the Washington Nationals. They were 73-89! White Sox, Royals, Orioles, D'Rays, Marlins, Reds, Pirates, and Giants all had worse records.

I live between DC and Baltimore and get games from both teams. I watch both as well. If you watch both leagues and have the opinion that the leagues are equal or (you need to take an IQ test) think the NL is better, you need a MRI right now.

PatriotsNation said...

If the Red Sox sweep the Series and the Patriots go 8-0 Boston will be insane on Sunday Night!

My pick: Sox in 6

Mark said...

Jason Taylor, the leader of the Dolphins said after the game that he had no problem with anything about how the Pats played the game, including Brady coming back after Cassel threw the pick six.

marcomarco said...

@ cmfost
I'll give the Rox one game. Sox in 5. Just don't bail on em this time.

@ Big D
Beat me to the punch on the StubHub bit. Would Dan object to the Rockies going after its SHub series tickets (i think not)

@ clinton
That's refreshing to hear from a colts fan. And I agree completely.

@ luke bell
Re: Rox 15-1. It's good to dream.
Re: 'Evil Pats'

I'd like to think that Belicheck has a 'hit list' of everyone who bashed him, ever. He's extracting revenge on anyone and everyone.

Maybe he didn't like Taylor's hotdogging on the Cassell interception. "Oh, reeeealy. Tom, Randy, get your helmets."

I would love for this to be true, because the latest bandwagon is to hate the Pats anyway (See:TMQ).

Funny, wasn't that the only Patriots TD in the 2nd half? If they were running it up, they probably could've hit 75.

If people don't like the score to be so high, grow a defense.

Matt T said...

Anything can happen in a 7 or 5 game series.

Ask Bobby Cox or Joe Torre about that.

Beetle said...

pv845,
Yes, last year was a shock, but the Cardinal's were a veteran team with a lot of previous experience, while Detriot was the young team who looked very tight on the big stage.
This year, the opposite is true, the AL team has the supposed superior talent AND the boat-loads of playoff experience.
That should be the difference.
Sox in 6.
Of course, there is a reason why they play the games.

CMFost said...

marco good point about the pats-dolphins game, what was the score at half 42-7 what was the final 49-28. Seems to me and the drive where Brady game in after the casell pick six proved it, that the Patriots could score at any time against the dolphins and only score 7 points in the second half to stop any momentum rhe dolphins thought they had

Luke Bell said...

Please. The Bears/Lions game scoring was when the game was still competitive. I have no problems with the Patriots scoring at will in the 1st half. But the Patriots brought Tom Brady back into the game in the 4th quarter. It should be noted that the Patriots were leading by 35 going into the 4th quarter, so even if the Dolphins scored 28 or 34 like the Lions or Texans did, they would STILL lose. Add to that that the Patriots were still throwing the ball around like they were behind, thereby increasing the chances for the other team to come back. If you were really concerned about the other team coming back, run the ball, keep the clock moving, and minimize the chances for a turnover.

Maybe the "genius" of Belichick didn't understand that. I can only hope some team throttles the Patriots in such a manner to see if people will come out and defend that as well.

Beetle said...

Clinton, I am glad you agree with me regarding Easterbrook's piece. I assume you are an Indy fan.
We already knew that Gregy had issues with Belichick, but the way he attacked Brady was unconscionable.
Brady is nothing but a class act. TO say he is rarely seen at charitable events is ridiculous. Just because Tom does drag a PR team with him when doing his charity work doesn't mean he isn't doing anything. Nothing is more disingenuous than an athlete visiting sick kids in a hospital with the television crew in tow.

CMFost said...

luke, so what your saying is that on 3rd and 8 they should run the ball and punt it to miami instead trying to complete a pass get a first down and keep the clock moving. If the patriots wanted to keep scoring in that game they would of score 60+ and they also would not of played a base defense and let the dolphins move the ball.

Mr. Ed said...

I agree that the Easterbrook column is garbage. Living in Georgia, with no viable options for a decent team to root for this year, I have decided to just root for those teams which demonstrate excellence on the football field. The Colts and the Pats both meet that standard (admittedly, the Pats are more entertaining right now). I love Dungy's commitment to high standards; I don't particularly like Belichick at all. But I wouldn't characterize the Pats as the Colts' "evil" foil. And the debate about which team is better is pointless until one of them rises to a Super Bowl berth.

marcomarco said...

Maybe Belichick is making his $500k back by covering every game.

Pats are 7-0 ATS.

blue said...

Dan's #1 Fan got tickets to the games this weekend....games 4 and 5, and that's the way it should be, for people who live in Denver, not some tards who live in NY. Get a media pass if you want to go to the game.

blue said...

shall I post this easterbrook TMQ column you are all discussing?

yay or nay?

Andrew said...

The KSK post leaves no doubt as to what has been obvious for some time now: whining ABOUT Boston fans became much more annoying than the actual whining BY their fans some time ago.

marcomarco said...

I gotta admit, I like this version of Blue much better than the spamming one.

marcomarco said...

Nay!

ToddTheJackass said...

The ONLY thing that I think makes the Patriots running up the score on the Dolphins a bit was that in relations to injuries, they actually were better off passing the ball than running the ball. With Morris out, and Maroney quickly developing a reputation for being injury prone, I thought that the safer bet was actually to pass the ball, where the only person at risk of injury was apparently whoever was attempting to double cover Randy Moss.

That being said, if the Patriots really had wanted to run up the score on the Dolphins, they could've done a lot more.

Beetle said...

Luke Bell, you are an idiot.
Go away please.
Didn't the Texans rack up 29 points in less than 10 minutes on Sunday to almost steal a game from the Titans?
Even the members of the Dolphins stated they did not feel the Pats were running up the score. They felt rightfully energized by Jason Taylor's score. The Pats need to squash that enthusiasm and they did.
Let me remind you that the Pats put up one and only one score in the ENTIRE 2nd half!!! And that's running up the score????????
Quit being dumb!
Anyone who reads anything that Easterbrook writes and agrees with it doesn't really know much about football.
"NFL teams should never punt!"
Really Gregory?? Boy aren't you smart!!!!

CMFost said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
CMFost said...

Let me add one thing, you must also not know about the patriots offense. They sometimes especially when there top 2 rb's are not playing use short passes as their running game. So yes they still threw the ball up 42-7 but did they go deep one time?

Luke Bell said...

Yes, that is what I am saying. If they run on that 3rd & 8, there is no INT for a TD by Taylor, and the game never gets "close." Also, looking back at the game logs, Brady's last TD came on a 2nd & 7, from the shotgun formation. This wasn't trying to pick up a 1st down. This was blatent running up the score. They were already in field goal range and had no reason to be throwing at all. It makes more sense to run it and keep possession and the clock moving. I can see little flares and throwing to the flat now and then, but that's not what the Patriots did. The "momentum" the Dolphins had came from the Patriots being less agressive on defense and giving the Dolphins extra chances at turnovers by throwing the ball when they should have been concerned with running out the clock.

Try to defend it all you want, but it reeks of classlessness. Let it happen to the Patriots and see what you think about it.

CMFost said...

luke being a long time patriots fan I have seen it happen and it is part of the game. You play to win the game you do not play to try and make the other team feel better.

ToddTheJackass said...

On to baseball...

For the record, I have Red Sox in 6. But with every "analyst" seemingly picking the Red Sox also, that scares me a lot. This Rockies team is ridiculously hot, and a very good team to boot. It will all come down to how their starting pitching will do, and whether or not Jiminez, Fogg, and Cook can have solid outings against the Red Sox. If they nibble too much or run up their pitch counts early, they're in trouble. We saw this with Carmona in the ALCS, in that it doesn't matter how good your stuff is if you're having trouble locating against a patient team like the Red Sox.

I give the edge to the Red Sox mainly because I like Beckett over Francis (who is criminally underrated though), and I like Boston's middle relief of Delcarmen and Timlin over LaTroy Hawkins and Matt Herges (I know I'm forgetting another Rockies pitcher, so correct me on that one please). I do actually think the 8th-9th innings combos of Okajima/Papelbon and Fuentes/Corpas are a wash. Manny Corpas is awesome, that guy could be one of the top 5 closers in baseball within a year or two.

That all being said, the Rockies received a kiss of death by having Dan pick them. Awesome.

Luke Bell said...

Look at the game log. They went deep quite a bit.

And are you really comparing the Texans/Titans to the winless Dolphins/juggernaut Patriots?

And you can't tell me the Patriots, the team that throws TD passes to linebackers, couldn't line up with a non-starter at running back and continue to run the ball.

The Dolphins wouldn't have been energized by the Taylor INT TD if the Patriots were running the ball. If they weren't throwing it all over the field, the Dolphins don't get within 4 scores.

pv845 said...

I think that Easterbrook is a tool for the reasons that everyone has stated before. In addition, his baseless accusations about my alma-mater and its "running up the score" classlessness make me think that he is as delusional as his brother.

I tend to agree that there isn't running up the score in professional sports. It sucks, but the teams are getting paid. I say that if some team does run up the score then turn about is fair play in a few years when things are bad for that team.

When you stop trying hard and doing the things you are used to doing, that is when your players get hurt. Now if the Pats start running trick plays and things like that, then they are just being poor sports.

CycleDan said...

That KSK column was the best ever? As a NYer who lived with the most annoying Boston sports fan ever in college, I still didn't think the article was that funny. Just rehashing old jokes. Also, just because they use the words fuck and shit in every sentence doesn't make them hip or cool. It makes them sound like the same people they are criticizing.

My basic problem with the KSK website is I think they are bad writers with little actual insight into sports. Their sense of humor reminds me of listening to a bunch of middle school students talking to each other trying to sound cool.

As much as I hate it, the city of Boston is on an unprecedented run right now. Of course they will come off as obnoxious. To be quite honest, I have more respect for most Red Sox fans than other fans. They have stuck through their team through thick and thin. Sure there are band wagoneers - there always will be. I would say most Red Sox fans have been around for a while.

Which brings me to the other point about Giuliani. Most real Yankee fans may not like the Red Sox, but we can at least respect their fan loyalty - far more so than Marlin or Rockies fans who just jump on the ship for a pennant run and will be nowhere next year when the team finishes in 3rd place.

Luke Bell said...

Why is it an injury risk for the running backs, but not an injury risk for Brady to come back into the game and throw? What if Brady got blindsided and blew out a knee in a game they were leading by 3 TDs over a winless team? The tune would have changed a lot I am betting. But it seems silly to me to bring up the health factor in regards to backup running backs and yet not worry about your franchise QB getting hurt.

DanShanoff.com said...

To answer your question/complaint: It's the best post ever...for me. If there is ever a condition about my frequent use of superlatives, it's that they are entirely defined by my own opinion/experience. You will certainly have others, and more power to you.

marcomarco said...

@ luke
"If they run on that 3rd & 8"...
"It makes more sense to run it and keep possession and the clock moving."

What's the percentage of successful 1st downs when running on 3rd and 8?

Make some sense please.

Luke Bell said...

You are trying to win the game. Keep the clock moving and punt it away. Sure beats an incompletion to stop the clock or an INT return for a TD (which is what happened).

It isn't about trying to get the 1st down, though if it happens, you get 3 more chances to run down the clock. Up by such a large amount, the enemy is the clock, not the opponent. Why risk letting them back in the game with an INT or sack? If you are really trying to win, you kill as much clock as possible.

Mr. Ed said...

I also agree about the running up the score thing - one of the things that separates good teams from bad ones is this: good teams know how to finish games, and play the whole 60 minutes. If you plan to train your team to play 60-minute ballgames, you can't teach your players to let up after 45 minutes everytime they are stomping an opponent.

Plus, you never know when "margin of victories" is going to come into play as a factor in the playoff hunt. You only have to go halfway down the list of tiebreakers before you run into points for/points against. Until your team has locked up every possible advantage during the playoffs, you keep scoring like there's no tomorrow.

Beetle said...

So Luke,
You are judging the Pats/Fins game by the game log meaning you didn't even see the game???
Brady's last TD pass was a 5 yard quick out to Welker who sprinted the rest of the way into the end zone.
Again, scoring 1 time during an entire half of football cannot be considered running up the score.
Also, the only reason why Cassell was throwing was to try to get him some work. As you had previously mentioned, Brady could get hurt, if he does, it would be nice to have a back-up that's converted at least 1 third down this year.
Also, yes I am comparing the Pats-Fins to the Texans-Titans.
Because the Titans are supposed to have a stout D, and the lowly Texans were being led by Sage Rosenfuckfeld!!
If Sage can ring up 29 in under 12 minutes, than the Fins were waaaaay more than capable of putting up 21 in the final 10 minutes, especially if the Pats left Cassell in the game.

Mark said...

If you are trying to win, you get the first down. If you are trying "not to lose" you concede the 4th down and punt.

Luke Bell said...

I saw the game until CBS switched to a game that was not out of hand. I use the game logs to see things like Brady chucking a deep pass (INC) to Moss while up by 3 scores.

You keep using the comebacks as an excuse to keep throwing the ball, but it is exactly that throwing that spurred the comeback on in the 1st place.

I agree with that "play to win the game" if the result is in doubt. You don't need to be so agressive when up by 3 scores with 10 minutes left in the game.

The only way the Dolphins are capable of putting up 21 points in 10 minutes against the Patriots is if the Patriots keep them in the game by throwing. Keep the clock moving, pin them deep, and make them continuously drive the length of the field to score. It is much easier to come back when you are throwing INTs for TDs.

Cody said...

I don’t have a problem with the Pats “running up the score”. If they can score 60 then score 60, but do not compare this game with the Titans and Texans game. In that game no team is clearly better than the other especially with VY on the sideline. At no point during that game did I say “it’s over, Tennessee has this wrapped up”. Did anyone in the world actually think that Miami was going to come back against the Pats? Did anyone think the Pats were actually in danger of loosing that game? No. My problem is when they took Brady out and then let him go back in. It’s not running up the score, its Billichiek’s way of rubbing it in your face. Either leave Brady in the entire game, or pull him and let your backup play the rest of the game. If I were coaching the Dolphins and this happened, Brady would have suffered a season ending injury. This just shows Billichiek’s and the Pats world class a-hole arrogance and is one of the ten reasons why I hate the Pats.

CycleDan said...

The problem with Easterbrook is that he quotes stats out of context. There is something called conditional expectation and that simply means, the probability of rushing for 3 yards is very different when it is first and goal at the 3 and when it is 1st and 10 at your own 20. A big part of football is predicting what the other team will do and doing the unexpected.

Also, he has stated that he believes that teams should always kick out of bounds. First off, the only reason to do that is if you are worried about a returner who might break a run for a TD. In general, with good punt coverage, you push a team further back by kicking it up the middle of the field. A typical punt is 40 yards and about 5-7 yard return. Kicking out of bounds yields 25-30 yards. That might cost a team a couple of TD returns per year but how many points are given up by spotting all opposition an additional 5 to 10 yards on EVERY drive? There is a reason that Easterbrook is writing and not coaching.

kirby077 said...

I have no problem what the Pats did agains the Dolphins. However, did the Pats not run up the score on the Cowboys? They could have taken a knee at the end of the game and instead let that fullback run it in (19 secs left). That's when I hope someone will take the fine/suspension and drive Brady into the ground.

Luke Bell said...

They have done things like that in every game. I hope they get what is coming to them.

ToddTheJackass said...

I actually agree with more of what Kirby and Cody are saying over what you're trying to say Luke. The deep throws from the Pats were in the first half almost entirely, correct? I don't really think it's against anyone's fan-laws etc., to score as many points as you can in the 1st half of a game, right? It's in the 2nd half that you're supposed to ease up, right? Again, do we criticize CFB teams for doing this?

I actually completely agree with Kirby in that the Cowboys game was a much better example of the Pats allegedly running up the score than the Dolphins game.

wolverine425 said...

as a pats fan, and a fan of football, i would much rather see miami go 0-16. i'm so sick of seeing shula and his cronies pop the champagne as soon as the last undefeated goes down in the nfl. it would be so ironic if the fins lost every game! so, optimally i'd like to see BOTH ne go undefeated and miami go winless.

wolverine425 said...

CM: What was the score of the bears and lions game going into the 4th quarter and how many points did they score to come back and win. What was the score of the texans/titans game this weekend and how many point did the texans score in the 4th to tie the game.

Could not agree more CM. Great point.

CMFost said...

Luke, I just took a look at the game log and the Patriots longest play in the second half was 18 yards(this is the Patriots 1st play of the 2nd half), there is one play with 9:40 left that they list as a deep pass but how deep could it of been since it was a 19yard pass interference penalty. So get a clue and check your facts, you are just bitter because you are dolphins fan and you team got it ass hand to them.

wolverine425 said...

LUKEY SAYS: Try to defend it all you want, but it reeks of classlessness. Let it happen to the Patriots and see what you think about it.

Yeah Luke, let's see it happen to the Pats. Maybe in another universe. 16-0. Go Pats.

CMFost said...

anyone else interests in the facts not interpreted by luke.

they are right here

CMFost said...

Kirby the only reason the patriots did not take a knee in the Cowboys game is because Wade Phillips called a timeout with under 2 minutes left and that made it impossible for the patriots to run out the clock.

wolverine425 said...

LUKE: You are trying to win the game. Keep the clock moving and punt it away. Sure beats an incompletion to stop the clock or an INT return for a TD (which is what happened).

YOU DON'T PLAY FOR A PUNT. YOU PLAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY TO WIINNNNNNNNNN THE GAAAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE.

pv845 said...

@wolverine425: My next question is Are the Pats who we think they are?

Luke Bell said...

The Pats threw deep to Moss with 9:40 left in the game. But yes, most of the deep stuff came in the 1st half, which I have no problem with at all.

Again, there is a difference between scoreing 34 points in the entire 4th quarter off a team trying to pass to catch up to you and scoring 21 points in 11 minutes off a team that should be killing the clock.

CMFost said...

and to be honest since there are at least 3 different tie breaking scenarios that involves the use of points score vs points allowed, I hope the Patriots never stop try to score.

TF said...

Clinton (Indianapolis) said...
I realize this is a bit off-topic, but I saw something this morning that really stuck in my craw. It was Easterbrook's piece on ESPN.com titled "Good vs. Evil," and the first thought that popped into my head was(pardon my French): "Are you fucking kidding me?" It's a goddamn football game, not Armageddon. The world will continue to turn after November 4. It's bullshit like this that makes me steer clear of ESPN unless there's an ACTUAL sporting event on, and even then, my television's usually on mute. Congratulations, ESPN, you're managing to KILL THE JOY OF SPORTS.


I don’t usually speak out abut ESPN, it’s kinda pointless. However, I have gotten so sick of them trying to make themselves part of the story and keep playing up or tacking on angles.

There are subjects on a SportsCenter a night. Some sort of overblown controversy (steroids, NFL player being detrimental to his team, NFL breakdown, promotion of something they are showing, NFL Breakdown, the all inclusive sappy vignette, NFL breakdown, 3 minutes of college breakdown for the weekend, go back to “top story” and we end the sow with NFL Breakdown.

Now I like NFL breakdowns. Just not from 8 or 9 different people and discussed ad nauseum. I mean how many different stories did they run on the Cowboys/Patriots game?

I usually just limit my ESPN viewing to games, an occasional College Gameday and Baseball Tonight (Where you don’ have 8-9 guys breaking down that day’s games).

The NFL coverage on ESPN is just so overbearing...

marcomarco said...

Re: Running up the score.

Explain this sequence to me, Luke. Looks like 3rd string, run, run, pass, run, run, run, punt.

New England Patriots at 03:45
3-J.Feely kicks 68 yards from MIA 30 to NE 2. 27-E.Hobbs to NE 21 for 19 yards (50-E.Miles).
1-10-NE 21 (3:39) New QB - #7 M. Gutierrez. 38-K.Eckel up the middle to NE 27 for 6 yards (52-C.Crowder).
2-4-NE 27 (2:54) 38-K.Eckel up the middle to NE 26 for -1 yards (90-R.Wright).
Timeout #1 by MIA at 02:49.
3-5-NE 26 (2:49) (Shotgun) 7-M.Gutierrez pass short right to 18-D.Stallworth to NE 41 for 15 yards (44-C.Worrell).
Timeout #2 by MIA at 02:30.
1-10-NE 41 (2:30) 38-K.Eckel left tackle to NE 40 for -1 yards (98-M.Roth).
Timeout #3 by MIA at 02:20.
2-11-NE 40 (2:20) 38-K.Eckel right tackle to NE 45 for 5 yards (98-M.Roth).
Two-Minute Warning
3-6-NE 45 (2:00) 38-K.Eckel right guard to NE 46 for 1 yard (54-Z.Thomas).
Timeout #1 by NE at 01:13.
4-5-NE 46 (1:13) 6-C.Hanson punts 51 yards to MIA 3, Center-66-L.Paxton, out of bounds.

CMFost said...

luke said ... The Pats threw deep to Moss with 9:40 left in the game.

How is this a deep pass when it was flag for a 19 yard pass interference penalty? If it was a 30+ yard penalty I see you point but not 19

nooch said...

personally, i think the pats are the ONLY team that cares about the fans...because anyone who has any patriot on their fantasy team right now is LOVING the extra points they are getting.

The team that has the ball on the 3 and knees it cost someone 6 fantasy points.

TF said...

I am a Dolphins fan and I dot mind running up the score. I would have hung 80 on us if I were Belichick. Its part of the swagger and as pros if you allow a tem to hang 80 on you then...

Tiny said...

Thanks to everyone who answered! I guess I'm more interested in the idea thats its classless to "run up the score". I'm English and in the soccer/rugby etc its just given that you try and score as many as possible.

cheers.

CMFost said...

Hey Dolphin fans be lucky if your coach did to the Patriots what Mangini did do them the score would of been 80-7

Luke Bell said...

Actually I am a Packer fan.

And a 19 yard pass from the opponent's 48 is pretty deep, considering you were up by 3 TDs at that point with 9:40 left in the game. Remember, at that point Brady was already removed once, which is a sign that the game is far enough in hand that you start putting in the backups. And then, when in FG range, they kept throwing the ball anyway. The only reason to do that is rubbing it in and running up the score. Saying different is pretty delusional.

Geoff said...

CM: What was the score of the bears and lions game going into the 4th quarter and how many points did they score to come back and win. What was the score of the texans/titans game this weekend and how many point did the texans score in the 4th to tie the game.

The Lions portion of this is not a good point because the game was competitive the whole 4th quarter. The Lions didn't enter the quarter down by 33. The score of that game entering the 4th quarter, for those not keeping track, was 13-3 Bears.

CMFost said...

actually he only reason to do it is to win the game and make sure the other team has not chance at winning. Saying that a team should stop playing in a 21pt game or at any point of a game is a losers mentality. And since you are a Pack fan I bet if this was the Packers who did the same thing that Patriots did you would not say a word.

Luke Bell said...

@marcomarco:

Yep, at 3:45 left in the game, up by 3 touchdowns, the Pats finally did what they should have been doing most of the quarter. Now look at the sequence from 10:30 on (still up by 3 TDs): Pass, pass, run, run, pass. Yeah.

Generik420 said...

So does this make Rudy Giuliani a "flip-flopper"?

Couldn't resist that one ;-)

Luke Bell said...

Not true at all. Especially with Favre at QB, I don't want any deep passes when the Packers havea large lead. I want that clock to keep on moving.

I am not saying to stop trying and give up on the game. But if the game is far enough out of reach to start pulling the starters, then it is far enough out of reach to stop throwing deep. And yes, I consider a 19 yard pass from the 48 deep.

CMFost said...

Here is a question, down 4 td's and with the patriots having the ball and with 3 1/2 minutes left why was Miami still calling Timeouts?

CMFost said...

Luke how far is far enough out of reach? 14 pts, 17, 21, 28, 30+

CMFost said...

Here is the answer that Coach Belichick gave Monday on WEEI to that question: You try and get the score to a point that your lead is bigger then the number of possible possession they have left in the game and 21 pts with 10 minutes left in the game is not a biggest enough lead.

Mike said...

Whoever provoked CMFost to post 17 times before noon needs to stop. It's hard enough to read one of his posts nevermind 17.

Mike said...

Sorry, 20 times, not 17.

marcomarco said...

@ luke

Thanks for (finally) agreeing with me. A team should act differently with 10 minutes left in a game, than 4 minutes.

So, the formula here is:
4 td lead and 15 minutes left = Backups
3 td lead and 10 minutes left = starters
3 td lead and 4 minutes left = backups of backups.

Jonathan said...

Just because you are professionals doesn't mean that you can't show good sportamanship. You could try setting a good example for kids, or you can run up the score. Just face it, the Pats are a bunch of classless assholes, just like their fans.

Chris said...

First of all, Adam, the line about the Yankees needing to hire Leitch to remain relevant was very well played. Dan, that suck up job you did to Will yesterday was about as embarrassing as anything I've ever seen on here. Wow, that was beyond pathetic. As was stated in the comments yesterday, probably only about 5% of sports fans even know who he is. Hell, I'm a huge sports fan and I couldn't pick him out of a lineup. The way you continually overstate the influence of the sports blogoshere in the overall world of sports is almost as lame as your Gator "fandom" (which could never be topped).

Now, as far as the whole "the Pats ran it up on the Fins" last week. Who cares. I'm a huge Steelers fan and hate Belechick and the Pats. However, I do realize it is PROFESSIONAL football and the concept of running up the score is different than on any other level. If you want to stop them from scoring, or resent them bringing Brady back in, then play defense or put some hits on TB to make your point. Otherwise, shut up and wallow in your ineptitude. Luke, seriously dude, your obession with this is really misplaced. The Dolphins are the ones who should be embarrassed here.

BTW, Go Sox.

Jonathan said...

What did Mangini do to them, stop them from cheating? How dare he, I'm pretty sure Larussa did the same thing in the World Series last year, yet no Detroit fans were calling him names.

Luke Bell said...

Well, the largest comeback in NFL history was 32 points, but that was 32 points with most of the 2nd half to play between 2 playoff teams (Buffalo and Houston, 1992-1993). The Pats were up 28 at the start of the 4th quarter, which would tie the largest ever comeback in NFL history for a regular season game if the Dolphins were able to do in one quarter what only two teams in NFL history have done in an entire half (the 2 teams were the aforementioned Bills and the 1980-81 49ers vs the woeful Saints, in SF). I would say that is a big enough lead to pull the starting QB (which the Patriots did) and stop throwing so much (which they didn't do). That lead was plenty big if you ask me.

Beetle said...

Cody,
What most people forget is that the 2004 Patriots blew an 11 point lead in the last 4 minutes in Miami.
The Pats were 12-1 at the time whilst Miami was 2-11.
So yes, this past week, Miami could have come back. It WAS NOT beyond the realm of possibility.

ToddTheJackass said...

Hey, we may be assholes... okay, we are, and embrace it for the most part... but we're not all classless.

Also, I hate the "For the kids" argument. It's ridiculous, since kids don't care 1/10th of what we all do. They're not the ones funding this multi-gazillion dollar industry. Nearly all of the issues "about the kids" really don't even matter to kids. You really think kids will translate the Pats winning big to meaning that they should run up their Pop Warner games? Come on. And don't tell me that as a kid you didn't run up the score on Madden?

CMFost said...

really ask the Titans if a 25 point lead to start the 4th quarter was enough?

Beetle said...

Kirby,
Regarding the Dallas game, that was the FU! touchdown (see Simmons column on this), scored because of Wade Phillip's comments to Peter King about the Pats Superbowl titles being tarnished.
The message being, if you want to talk ridiculous trash about us, they we are gonna embarrass the @#$% out of you on national TV.

Jonathan said...

Kids are impressionable, kids hang up posters of football players in their rooms. I don't know any adults who do that. That is why it is important to set a good example for them. Whatever screw them

Beetle said...

Jonathan,
Let see, labeling an ENTIRE region of the country a bunch of classless assholes....now there's class for you!!
Quit you f@#$ing crying!

wolverine425 said...

PV845: My next question is Are the Pats who we think they are?

Yes. 100%. Best coach. Best QB. Best corps of WR's. Solid top 10 Defense. Only thing missing is a healthy solid RB. Watch out for them if they do get healthy in the backfield. I'm hoping for a perfect season and hopefully the Indianapolis Manning's will stay within a W or 2 so that the Pats have to play out the whole season and not have any throw away garbage games in Nov./Dec.

The heroin sheik said...

you need to score as many points as possible in the NFL as it is the 4th tiebreaker.

I actually like easterbrook's column except when he talks about football. I like all the arcane crap he talks about outside of football. I guess it is because I like science and that sort of thing.

How many people could care less about the WS. I can't root for a divisional opponent which makes Guiliani a cock goblin, and I could care less about a team in Denver. I would rather catch up on all the shows I tivoed.

GuyInTheCorner said...

NBA TRADE

HEAT TRADE:

Antoine Walker, Michael Doleac, Wayne Simien, and a future draft pick (unknown round)

T'WOLVES TRADE:

Mark Blount and Ricky Davis

Luke Bell said...

25 points is not 28 points. 28 points is 4 touchdowns to tie. And I would like to think that you can agree that the Patriots are much better than the Titans, and that the Dolphins are much worse than the Texans.

It really comes down to 21 points with 11:35 left and the Patriots having the ball. You almost have to try to lose that game. Throwing the ball is a good way to do that (which is what the Patriots did). If the Pats ran the ball 3 straight times after Cassel came in, they could have punted the ball with around 9 minutes left and a 21 point lead, making the Cleo Lemon-led Dolphins drive the whole field without Ronnie Brown. Instead, they pass, pick 6, and it's a 14 point game. How again are you justifying passing when that is really the only way the Dolphins have a shot at coming back?

Mills said...

That was some funny stuff yesterday. I enjoyed seeing Daniel in the mix. Too bad I wasn't here to partake.

Mills said...

I thought the Free Darko thing was lame-o McGuirken.

A.P. Boynton said...

Shanoff, you really are clueless about the series.

Colorado has the advantage on defense and with speed. That's it.

Beckett, Schilling, Dice-K, Lester or Francis, Jimenez, Fogg, Cook...hmmm..it's so easy to decide. Cook hasn't pitched since August. Why would the Rockies take a chance with him?

Aside from Holliday, the Rockies big guns (Tulo and Helton) are struggling offensively. Colorado is at a disadvantage at Fenway due to tremendous home field advantage and the fact that whoever they have at DH will not match the production of Ortiz. Oh man..Seth Smith..or Ryan Spilborgs at DH? So frightening.

Manny Corpas couldn't hold Papelbon's jock.

I'm sorry, I'll take Boston's top 6 over Colorado's top 6 hitters

Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Manny, Lowell, Drew....

or...

Taveras, Matsui, Holliday, Helton, Atkins, Hawpe...

sure Shanoff....and Tim Tebow is the best QB in the land and Florida is such a great team...

TF said...

Rockies in 6.

TF said...

PS - I just gotta get this out after reading this for weeks.

Sox Suck
Patriots Suck
Celtics Suck
Bruins Suck
Boston College Sucks
Harvard Sucks
Emerson College Sucks
Lowell Spinners Suck
and most of all

Boston Sucks.

Mark said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark said...

Ouch, tf, you sure know how to put the smack down on Boston sports! I wouldn't want you as an enemy!

CMFost said...

For all of you who hate the Patriots here is some bad news for you:

The Patriots best Defensive Lineman Richard Seymour returned to practice today.

ToddTheJackass said...

I think I tend to be the only fan in Boston who actually realizes we haven't won anything yet. Or anyone on ESPN for that matter. But a correction to those who live outside of New England, don't for a second think that most Boston fans root for BC as well, because that simply isn't true. In fact, most people in these parts tend to have gone to different schools, so they actually root against BC.

Also, it killed me last night when Herbstreit said on Sportscenter that he thinks Tim Tebow is far and away the best College QB in the land, and the definite front-runner for the Heisman. Tebow is having a great year, but his supporting cast is light years ahead of what Matt Ryan, Darren McFadden, or Andre Woodson have. I've seen a lot of really shitty balls that Tebow has thrown get caught only because of the quality of his receivers (who will undoubtedly be great in college then fail in the pros), whereas I've seen more dropped passes by BC receivers than I think I've ever seen by any Top 25 team ever.

Anyway, go all those teams that TF said suck... except for Emerson and Harvard, and maybe the Bruins, if only because it's fun to say, oh well, the Bruins still suck.

Sparty said...

so both teams lose in that deal, both the Heat and the TWolves

CMFost said...

Beetle said...
Kirby,
Regarding the Dallas game, that was the FU! touchdown

Beetle I disagree, this TD was due to the fact that the stupid fat ass(Wade Phillips) called his last timeout with under 2 minutes to go even though he had no chance of winning. Belichick said if Phillips did not take that time out he would of taken a knee but since he took the timeout there was no way to run out the clock and they had to complete and also it not our fault that the Cowboys could not stop our 5th string RB

Jonathan said...

Classless a-holes.

Jen said...

cmfost~Glad the Browns played the Pats already!

toddthejackass~ Ugh, Herbie must have said that before I flipped to ESPN. I just saw his Top 5.

I hope the Rox win in 6.

pv845 said...

My new favorite quote comes from EDSBS.com and their blogpoll. I think it sums up the nations feelings about the SEC.

" See the fact we axed three SEC teams from the poll this week for sucking. Note: not for competing in “THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE IN THE LAND” [/merrill hoge], but for s-u-c-k-i-n-g and l-o-s-i-n-g."

Alex Gore said...

One whole touchdown in the entire second half. Damn, Patriots, stop with the running up the score already!

Jonathan said...

classless cheaters

Luke Bell said...

@ Alex Gore: The Patriots only had the ball 4 times inthe entire 2nd half, one was a TD and one was an INT. Until the very last Patriot drive when they were up by 3 scores with 4 minutes left, the Patriots passed 9 times and ran 5 times. Nearly a 2-1 ratio when up by no fewer than 2 touchdowns at any point. Hell, throw in the last clock killing drive, and it just goes up to 10 passes and 10 runs.

starkweather said...

Adam - that's pretty funny. Did nobody else appreciate that? And to guyinthecorner: "I saw every team in baseball play more than once and I watched Baseball Tonight about 5 times a week on average."? So you watched the Yankees and Red Sox all season? Also, you have to look past the level of talent sometimes when watching baseball. Nats are definitely the least talented team in the league. They are something of a joke. But they play decent defense and don't make stupid mistakes. Which is why they won those 20 or so extra games over what they're talent level suggests. And also why they are a better team than the Devil Rays. The Devil Rays are the anti-Rockies. Worst defense of all time and it wasn't even close. Scott Kazmir should be an 18-game winner and shouldn't have to strike every batter out. Their hitters are wildly immature. They get my vote for worst team in the majors even though they have a team of future stars. Red Sox jerkass fans take note of two things that you might not realize: 1) Team defense is really really important unless you are playing against the Indians and their 3rd base coach has no idea when to send Kenny Lofton and 2) The rest of the country isn't whining about Boston fans, we just hate you. Rockies are going to win. Because God hates you, too.

CMFost said...

luke I guess you missed his point, if the Patriots really wanted to run up the score the final would not of been 49-28 it would be 72-7

Alex Gore said...

Yes, luke, that's right, the Patriots only had [i]4[/i] possessions in the second half. Why? because *gasp* the Dolphins were moving the ball with their offense against a defense that had clearly taking it's foot off the pedal (and why not, they were up 42-7). And in the end, they ended up passing as much as rushing....with their 3rd and 4th string rRB's and their first string RB coming back from an injury that kept him out for three weeks.

Please provide some real evidence here, or rather, discount what Jason Taylor himself said, cause none of what you just said made much sense.

Mark said...

What's more insulting: Going run, run, run (essentially kneel, kneel, kneel) and then punting, patronizing the Dolphins for the rest of the game? Or mixing it up a little, you know, actually PLAYING FOOTBALL, and scoring 1 measly touchdown?

danthemanwise said...

wolverine425 said...

PV845: My next question is Are the Pats who we think they are?

Yes. 100%. Best coach. Best QB. Best corps of WR's. Solid top 10 Defense. Only thing missing is a healthy solid RB. Watch out for them if they do get healthy in the backfield.

Hmm, not that I disagree but a case could be made for another team.

Best Coach: Dungy
Best QB: Manning
Best WR Core: Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez
Top 10 Defense: Colts
Plus the Colts do have a healthy RB.

By no means am I saying the Colts are better then the Pats, but everyone seems to be forgetting about them and this is exactly why teams like Florida, Texas, OSU in 2002, Pats vs SD last season, Steelers in 2005 happen.

Seems like everyone is forgetting about the Colts and they are, after all, the defending chapms who seem to be even better

Luke Bell said...

So you are saying that Cassel wanted to throw a pick-6?

And if they had any class, the score would have been 42-14 like it was at the half. Just because they didn't score doesn't mean they weren't trying. I have no problem with trying, just that they were passing. If Miami can't stop run lays, it's a lot different.

And I will not be shocked a bit if there is a 72-14 score when they play the Jets. Gotta get back at the y that called you out on your cheating.

CMFost said...

Dan, Go back a look at one of my posts from yesterday, and you will see the Colts defense is a little overrated at the moment since they have not really played any good offensive teams, just as the pats offensive stats may be a little overrated since they really have not played any great defenses

Cody said...

Cody,
What most people forget is that the 2004 Patriots blew an 11 point lead in the last 4 minutes in Miami.
The Pats were 12-1 at the time whilst Miami was 2-11.
So yes, this past week, Miami could have come back. It WAS NOT beyond the realm of possibility.
_______
Beetle,

You are comparing an 11 point lead to a 28 point lead (also comparing the 2007 Pats vs. the 2004 Pats who won games in a totally differnet manner but thats antoher conversation). Has the Miami offense scored 28 points in a game much less a quarter this year? I don't know that why I'm asking. Don't try and tell me you were watching that game thinking "Oh no, Miami may come back and win". Becasue no one else was.

Mark said...

I don't think anyone is forgetting about the Colts. I think it's more of a case of this Pats team being so vastly different in the style of football they play than previous Pats teams, whereas with the Colts, you're looking at essentially the same team, at least as far as style of play goes that everyone is used to them. This is the third straight year they've started 6-0, which is amazing, but it's what everyone has come to expect. None of my friends who are Pats fans have forgotten about them, anyway.

Luke Bell said...

The defense took the foot off the pedal, so why not the offense? And what I said didn't make any sense?

Running isn't kneeling. You are till trying to gain yardage and maintain possession, thereby killing the clock. That also shortens the game, reducing the chances for injury for both teams. So yes, running the ball when up big is the less "insulting" thing to do.

Hey, you want to think that throwing twice as much as running when up by 3 scores isn't rubbing it in, then nothing I can say will sway you. I just hope it happens again with the Pats on the receiving end.

danthemanwise said...

CMFost

I remember what you wrote yesterday and I am not saying I agree or disagree, but virtually everyone is saying the Pats O is the best and I am simply playing devils advocate.

Manning, Harrison, Wayne, Clark and Addai are in their second year together and know how to win with each other.

If the Pats get in a situation where they have to make a clutch score, how will they react with totally new WR and 3-4 string RBs? I am not saying they wont, but we do not have any proof to say they will other then Brady.

I for one am glad I will be traveling next week so I can avoid the week long love fast that will be Colts and Pats.

starkweather said...

I hope Boston's original NFL franchise wins this week

Travis said...

One of my friends whos a Jets fan said to me yesterday that he fears the Jets game in Foxborough later this season.

He knows the Jets will probably lose, but he fears that Belichick is gonna play the whole game as if its 0-0 with 2 minutes left.

----------------------------------

this is the NFL and if teams have a problem with getting their asses kicked then they need to stop the Patriots, if they cant, tough shit.

Alex Gore said...

No, Luke, what you said didn't make any sense.

You seem to say that simply passing the ball indicates some sort of attempt to run up the score, irregardless of the reality that the Patriots RB corp. is banged up or that a short passing game can be used for clock control (the Patriots have done that famously before) or that, you know, they didn't really score much. You never really deal with those logical hurdles to your conclusions cause, well, I don't know why not and I am not gonna speculate.

Instead you are perfectly content to trump a "They passed twice as much as they ran!" stat without any sort of context, ignore Jason Taylors comments on the subject, and downplay the reality that they scored exactly 35 points less in the second half than the first. Ergo, you are making no sense.

Jen said...

I can't believe you guys have argued about this ALL day! HAHA

I guess there isn't much else going on in the sports world.

Alex Gore said...

Well, I don't really care to take about the World Series till it happens, so no, there isn't much going on in the sports world I am interested in at the moment.

CMFost said...

The lineups for Game 1 of the World Series have just been posted. Here they are:
ROCKIES
CF Willy Taveras
2B Kaz Matsui
LF Matt Holliday
1B Todd Helton
3B Garrett Atkins
RF Brad Hawpe
SS Troy Tulowitzki
C Yorvit Torrealba
DH Ryan Spilborghs
(LHP Jeff Francis)

RED SOX
2B Dustin Pedroia
1B Kevin Youkilis
DH David Ortiz
LF Manny Ramirez
3B Mike Lowell
C Jason Varitek
RF JD Drew
SS Julio Lugo
CF Jacoby Ellsbury
(RHP Josh Beckett)

Generik420 said...

Damn I am living in Indianapolis, am a huge fan of the Colts, and I am SICK of hearing about the game next week. In all honesty, I secretly hope the Pats win, go undefeated, and then get smacked in the mouth by the Colts in the playoffs, IN Foxboro no less, and wind up wasting a perfect regular season. That would be the ultimate outcome for me..

Out of real amusement to me.. I never hear anyone discuss what happens if the Colts actually win next weekend. There is nothing but talk of the possible 16-0 Pats, 0-16 Dolphins.. and here the Colts are still undefeated and nobody seems to think they are a threat this year. Which is quite alright in my mind.

Luke Bell said...

Cripes. When you pass, there is a chance the pass will fall incomplete, thereby stopping the clock, which is really the opponent when youare thumping a team by 20+ points in the 4th quarter. Depleted running back corps or not, they still had people who can carry the ball, no? This concern for running back health still doesn't explain the lack of concern for Tom Brady's health by bringing him back into the game after taking him out.

They didn't score much in the 2nd half because, as you already pointed out, the defense was playing a little safer with the large lead, content to avoid giving up any quick strike scores that would let the Dolphins back in the game. Force them to use the clock and drive slowly the length of the field. Why the offense continued to pass more than run until there were only 4 minutes left in the game doesn't make sense from a clock management standpoint.

Short passing can be used as a substitute for a running game, but why risk incompletions and interceptions when you are up by so much? As I said before, the threat of the comeback was not the Dolphins - It was the Patriots turning the ball over and stopping the clock with incompletions. And gee, that is exactly what happened. If you think the Dolphins had a chance of overcoming a 20+ point lead with 11 minutes left in the game by driving the length of the field 3 or 4 times and not getting a turnover, you are crazy.

And if you think Jason Taylor is going to say something like "The Patriots were running up the score!" when they still have to play them again in December in Foxboro, then you underestimate the smarts of one Jason Taylor.

The facts still remain that the score never got any closer than 14 points with 10 minutes left in the game, and that was due only to throwing an INT for a TD (which would have been avoided with a running play and a punt). Bringing in the starting QB after talking him out once and throwing a touchdown pass withthe game well in hand is running it up. If it wasn't, why bring him back in?

Travis said...

the colts always lose at the end of the regular season and they wont go undefeated even if they beat the Pats.

Jim said...

Just what the hell have the '72 Dolphins done to earn this supposed universal hatred, anyway? The whole thing about champagne toast is a load of BS perpetuated by Berman and others in the sports media. And so what if a bunch of 60 and 70-something dudes are proud of going 17-0 (and 32-2 over two seasons, by the way)? Honestly, I wouldn't blame them for having chips on their arthritic shoulders. But if you listen to the old gezzers' comments, they continuously say they'll welcome any team that goes undefeated into the club. So what exactly have they done to piss off the world? Get old?

marcomarco said...

I'm strangely tickled that someone used 'irregardless' and 'ergo' in the same post.

marcomarco said...

@jim

Probably the same reason that Easterbrook and America now hates the Patriots, Red Sox, Yankees, Spurs, used to hate the Cowboys, Niners, Celtics.

Success breeds contempt.

Then again, did anyone hate the Chicago Bulls? I just disagreed with myself, nevermind.

Mr. & Mrs. Commish said...

It cracks me up that everyone fails to see what the obvious final answer to this question. If the Pats are "running up the score" why in the heck do they put their backup QB in the game with an entire quarter to go? That doesn't exactly speak to them running up the score.

Unless of course your conspiracy theory is that they put the backup in specifically so they can pull him out late and be more insulting by putting Brady back in, rather than leaving him in. I can see that....c'mon... get past just wanting to hate the team and use your head.

Mr. & Mrs. Commish said...

....or if you still want to see them as running up the score, despite them putting in their backup QB to start the 4th....how in the heck do you explain them putting in the 3rd string QB the next time they get the ball after Brady once again gave them an insurmountable lead. If they were running up the score, it seems they would have left Brady in for more points. So, let's call it what it is, you either hate the Patriots and thus want to whine about this because you get off on it somehow or b. are a complete idiot, who is somehow confused by the clear signs the Patriots sent. Again, here's the storyline....Belichek feels safe, puts in backup. Miami score, Belichek doesn't feel safe, puts starter back in. Scores again, feels safe again and puts the 3rd string QB in. There is nothing that which points to Belichek "running up the score". The only possible charge you can bring is that he is too paranoid about losing, personally I think that is a good quality in a coach.

patrick said...

Pedro's immediate homerun is nothing but a good sign this weekend for ASU. Leadoff homerun = 34-24 Sun Devil victory.

Thomas said...

how about your other picks?

all those series went the max?? oh wait, most were sweeps....

marcomarco said...

@ luke

Maybe the Sox should run, run, run, punt.

ToddTheJackass said...

I think Dan is now seriously regretting picking the Rockies to win... if for nothing else in that they had no hope once he picked them.

(Obviously the Rockies could still win the series, but that was quite a momentum killer, wasn't it?).